Help Sexing and ID'ing Geophagus

[Vertigon_z]

Good Morning All,

Can anyone assist me in identifying which Geophagus these are? Also are they male or female. I have attached a Pic of both, The suspected female is by the tiki ornament while the suspected male is against the black background. I was told these are surinamensis.

 

[kno4te]

Stanzzzz7 duanes

 

[Stanzzzz7]

They look like altifrons to me.. I can't sex them from the pics.

 

[Vertigon_z]

Stanzzzz7 Would this pic help

 

[Stanzzzz7]

I've never been able to sex these.
People have told me that males have longer fin extentions. I've never been able to see any difference personally.
I think watching a group grow up together and seeing how they interact is the only way I could pick out a male and female with these geos.
Maybe someone else will know a way to sex them other than venting.