High flow for argenteus - did I overdo it?

[neutrino]

Up to you but more than necessary imo, more than I have in a 135 with a few geos, couple of plecos, and a wild Heros. I do have a wave maker, positioned several inches below the top and aimed upwards to produce surface turbulence. All doing quite well, as my fish always have, including a 6" sunshine pleco which is active (in the evening) and growing fast-- L14 plecos like well oxygenated water. (personally, I've come to dislike air stones, due to bubble noise and deposits on lids, etc., and I don't find them necessary in my lightly to moderately stocked tanks) If it was me I'd be guided more by its behavior, respiration, and personal experience than outside opinions-- including mine

River dwelling and rheophilic (current loving) are two different things, one doesn't always equal the other and an image of a fast river doesn't tell you the details of where in the river a species spends its time. Using Geophagus as an example, some people watch this video and only hear that they inhabit reasonably fast moving rivers, missing the detail that the high bodied species prefer the "slack water" areas (portion of video below starting at the 38 second mark). There are rheophilic geo species, but they're not the most common ones in the hobby. That said, the sveni (and Heros) in the tank don't mind getting up in the current occasionally. The (few) descriptions of argentea habitat I've seen said they prefer the quieter, deeper pools and similar spots. I'm not sure where that information comes from but it fits their adult body type, bulky and tall bodied vs sleek or torpedo shaped.

Geophagus - Guide to Amazonian Eartheaters - nearly all Geophagus species ! - YouTube

 

[jjohnwm]

River dwelling and rheophilic (current loving) are two different things, one doesn't always equal the other and an image of a fast river doesn't tell you the details of where in the river a species spends its time.

This ^ is wisdom. Showing pictures of a white-water section of river, or an area of riffles, and then proclaiming "See? This is where these fish live!" makes little sense. Most of them don't live in those areas, or if they do they are spending their time in micro-environments within that overall picture: slack water at the bottom of pools...eddies and backwaters in river bends...static water pockets behind or under boulders and other obstructions. They may sally forth into the current to snatch some morsel of food that is tumbling by, or to scurry from one calm spot to another, but usually that is the extent of their interaction with a roiling current.

A fly fisherman approaching a stretch of such tumultuous current doesn't toss his fly randomly into the maelstrom...not if he actually expects to catch fish. Rather, he "reads" the water, picking it apart and finding all the little blips and twists and obstructions that create serene pockets of water, and then he presents the fly carefully and accurately to those exact spots, i.e. those tiny bits of calmer micro-environment where he knows the fish lay in wait.

Stop and think about Geos in particular, obtaining much of their sustenance by sifting the substrate for inverts and organic matter. Take a look sometime into a clear, rapid stream; the gravel on the bottom in those fast-water sections is pristine, looks like it just came out of the bag from PetCo aside from the fact that it isn't dayglow purple. The water scours it clean. Then take a look behind that boulder, or back in that cove where the water slows...and find the debris that has settled out of the current...which contains a plethora of bugs and other goodies. Where will the fish look for their food?

The area around Niagara Falls has always been a good one for fishing, especially for Rainbow Trout and Muskies...but I don't recall ever seeing anybody fishing in the vertical portion of the water. There are no fish in there!

By the way, Sinister-Kisses , I'm not necessarily saying that you have created too much current in your tank. I agree with neutrino that you might have more than necessary; I don't think that a bit less would in any way be less healthy for your fish...but your tank doesn't even begin to display the high flow rate that we keep seeing in pictures that claim to depict "where the fish live". Kudos on even thinking about this question, instead of blindly striving for the washing-machine effect that is often sought after.

And...that is a magnificent fish! Beautiful subtle colouration, impressive finnage and body form...it's what Flowerhorns want to be when they grow up.

 

[FINWIN]

Been kind of trial and error for me, but in the 125 I have 2 wavemakers, one on each side. The one on the right wall is positioned high and pointed toward the front. The one on the left sits midway down the wall and is aimed at the back. I've got loads of hrp fry in there and they don't blow around or seem bothered at all. In the 225 those fish love wavemakers. The oscar and parrot just sit in front of the blast like they're getting a massage. Both of those pumps are aimed at the front mostly so I can keep circulation pushing debris where I can get at it.

I use airstones but have them directly in front of the hob waterfall so that motion "collides" making even more circulation. I'm a firm believer that oxygenation affects growth in fish. It's anecdotal for sure but most of my fish get big regardless of specie. The only thing they all have in common is water movement and airstones. Fry seem to grow faster too.

 

[Sinister-Kisses]

Thanks for all the great feedback, all of you! I think I may try cutting it back a bit this weekend when I am doing a water change. He doesn't seem to MIND it necessarily, but like I said he also doesn't seem to move over to that side of the tank now which seems like a total waste of space lol. I'll play around with it a bit. There certainly was nothing wrong with him before the addition of all the air stones and wave makers, but it came up in a other post of mine as possibly leading to slightly greater growth rate since it's more natural to them. So even just the smaller wave maker and the three large air stones is still more oxygenation and flow than he's had his entire life so far.

 

[Backfromthedead]

I like a lot of flow in my tanks but also like to make sure there are plenty of refuges from the turbulent areas, just as there are in all natural waterways. I think tanks with very little circulation provide very little stimulation. Not that im one of those fools who prattles on and on about how fish have "feelings", but i have noticed you can see many more behaviors in some species when they have access to something that resembles a current.

I think most fish would adapt well to the current in your tank. Notable exception being something like ranchu goldies, many of which resemble deformed footballs as they grow and are unable to actually swim.

 

[FINWIN]

Thanks for all the great feedback, all of you! I think I may try cutting it back a bit this weekend when I am doing a water change. He doesn't seem to MIND it necessarily, but like I said he also doesn't seem to move over to that side of the tank now which seems like a total waste of space lol. I'll play around with it a bit. There certainly was nothing wrong with him before the addition of all the air stones and wave makers, but it came up in a other post of mine as possibly leading to slightly greater growth rate since it's more natural to them. So even just the smaller wave maker and the three large air stones is still more oxygenation and flow than he's had his entire life so far.

You could try angling a piece of driftwood or something to break and redirect the flow in that corner.

 

[Cal Amari]

Like many things in this hobby it could be a fish by fish basis as well. I had a handful of yoyo loaches and 1 in particular would often be found playing in the powerhead flow. He would swim up from underneath it and get launched 3feet across the top of the tank and settle towards the bottom, then swim back across the bottom and right back up into the jetstream again. Many times a day, many weeks in a row he did this, while the other handful of loaches were busy nosing in and out of everything else in the tank, no one ever joined him.

 

[duanes]

Having spent time in Mexico where M argentea comes from,
the photo I posted, (even though in Panama) was specific to the habitat where Maskaheros argentea can be found.
It was not just a random generalization.
I would not use it if referring to many other nonrheophillic cichlid species