HIH and why. Feedback please!!....>more

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michael

Tri-State Fish Hoarder
MFK Member
Nov 3, 2005
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OK I have been in denial I think for a month or so now but now I will face the truth. My 2 gars, 2 aros, and now my pbass have all developed HIH and on some its pretty bad. The tank has 100% perfect water conditions. The fish are fed mostly frozen and dried krill with carnivore sticks by hikari and tetra. The pbass is the only one who eats only feeders still. The aros and gars RARELY eat feeders. I have done much research over the last couple days and haven't resolved much. I read the main causes would be diet and water conds and those are ok. What do you guys think could be causing this?? I really want to get this figured out and cleared up. Any feedback appreciated!
 
There have been other threads on this, do a search under "hole in the head", and it should pull them up. But right now, I can give you some simple basics.

Hole in the Head Disease (Hexamita or Octomitus) generally starts off as small pin-holes on the head, typically around the sensory pits first. They most often have a greyish/whitish color to them, and can have mucous. But that's all common knowledge. It's true that poor water quality, and a lacking diet can be main factors in severe instances, but this only allows a more rapid spread of the disease, it doesn't actually "cause", or create the disease. HITH is linked with a P. parasite, and can be in tanks in low levels with no real harm to the fish. But if your fish were to become over stressed, malnurished, or so on, it can become agressive, attacking this weakness, and becomming apparent to you. It can often start in the digestive tracts though, and is called HITH, because it's first real obvious symptoms are just that. It's important to note, that just because your fish eat a lot, it does NOT mean they are properly nourished. Just like you could live off of Mc Donalds your whole life, it's good, it keeps you alive, but it ain't good for ya!
Some treatments you could try are Metronidazole or Dimetridazole. Both of these tend to work pretty well. .................

Like I said, lost of people have encountered this, and lots have posted, so run a search, and check them out!! :)

--EMI
 
I did a google search as well as one here on MFK and did get some good knowledge of the parasite/disease but didn't find much more than what I mentioned for a remedy. I think the diet is proper and tests show the water good too. What can i do to help these fish?? i do know that my aros are very skittish and think in their case it may be stress but the gars are as mellow as possible and the pbass thinks he owns the tank so don't think he is being stressed!?
 
sorry to hear that michael, I've never experienced HOTH on any fish, since I was a kid, but other than meds, try the same precautions as other illnesses.

Raise the temp to 28 degrees + (celcius), add some salt, feed mainly a good pellet with lots of vitamins from Hikari, Hikari also do a multivitamin krill. Try spirulina too.

Do lots of water changes.

What kind of filtration do you have on that 300 gallon? And what water changes?
 
Well, considering they are already suffering, what you need to do now, is check into some serious meds., and soon. The last two I suggested on my previous post are really the only two I would highly recommend.

A few steps you can take to get you headed in the right direction are:

Get your diet on a good scale. I know you said you keep it balanced, but here are some additional ideas. You may want to supplement with a multi-vit. This is easy to do with pellet/flake foods, as you can simply grind them into a powder, add them to a small amount of water with the food, and allow the food to absorb them before feeding. Also, expanding your current diet to a larger one never hurts. Be sure to stick within the guide lines of what your fish will tolerate. Some choices are; crickets, earthworms, beef heart, mealworms, shrimp, blood worms, and so on and so on. Using freeze-dried versions of any of those is acceptable too. Next you need to start doing water changes. Typically, you want to do around 20% or more, but do not exceed 50% every 3-4 days. And make sure you vaccum your substrate as well, to ensure removal of waste, and help keep the nitrite levels down.

Another thing you can try, which I have done in the past, and I think Guppy also has used this as an aid, is to add salt to the water. You should be safe adding about 1 tbs of salt per every 8-10 gallons of water. But do note, not all salt is the same. Do not use regular table salt, or certain types of marine salt, as these have been processed with chemicals, and are not acceptable. Using Kosher salts, aquarium salts, or other, non processed salts are all ok. An added benefit, of adding salts, is that is provides a natural stimulant for protection, by encouraging new, thicker slime coats to form, and helps reduce stress.

Raising the temperature in your tank is also something else you can do. This will increase the metabolic rate of your fish, and decrease healing time. Make sure you do not raise it too high, as this will be counter productive to what you are trying to achieve. Also, when raising the temps., make sure you use one or all of the above suggestions first, as simply raising the temp alone, with nothing else will only speed the advancement of HITH!!

Something else I STRONGLY suggest is to remove ALL carbon from your aquarium, as others will too I am sure. If all else fails, there are the meds I listed, but those have very specific guide lines, and must be followed exactly to ensure the best results.

on a last note, if you choose to add salt, remember this does not replace water changes, you still need to keep them regular (about 20-30%) every couple of days. Also, the salt will remain in your water until it is removed by you, so be careful to keep close calculations of how much salt you add, and how much water you change out when adding new salt, so that you do not over do it. Hope some of this info. Will help, there is more, but I am sure someone will comment on other regimens.

--EMI
 
Isn't HOTH the ice planet on star wars? :ROFL:
 
Thanks Emi. I am going to start by getting some vitamins to add to the food and get some beefheart, everyone here seems to have good luck with it, in the diet. Going to try and fully get the fish off the feeders. I wanted to try and get the fish big as fast as I could so i was using the feeders but not no more, the health is more important. In the tank my ammonia and nitrites have read 0 for quite some time now and nitrates haven't been a problem either. Ph is usually kept around 7.0 Filtration in the tank is 2X eheim 2250 and a tidepool sump setup with biowheel and UV sterilizer. Something around 1000 gph for the 3. I also have been doing weekly gravel cleanings with 25-30%water change. This weekend in my doings i am also going to add salt at 1 tblspn for every 6-7.5gallons. I'll see if it works and/or prevents further. Mike
 
Your welcome, sounds like you were already doing some things right before my post. One thing I am glad to hear though, is that you are going to try and eliminate the feeders all together. I know it's cool to use feeders, and the fish generally love them, but nutritionally, most of them have about as much beneficial nutrients for the fish as a "Big-Mac" for us. Your water sounds good, seems like you have kept it pretty stable, even through this disease, which is very good. I also noticed you listed a UV. That's good, but one thing I might suggest, is in order to fully maximize your UV - especially now, you need to ensure that the water exchange flow rate is slow enough to allow ample exposure to the strerilization. Some people think that the faster the water goes through it, the faster it will work, but thats not usually the case. In order to work properly, the water needs to be exposed for a while (were talking seconds here), to fully benefit. Other than that, sounds like you got a handle on it now, so just keep me posted on the progress, and let me know if you need anything else.:) :)

--EMI
 
I agree with Emi, you are doing a lot of what you can but once it has established a foot hold you need to treat with an antiprotozoal like metronidazole.
 
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