hornworm info please?

[Jory]

i'm thinking about starting up a tank for tomato hornworms, at least until they become moths, but maybe a full fledged culture. i've been looking around online and haven't found much about long term care and non-toxic foods(they store poisons from foods like tomatoes and peppers, and if i were to feed it to my bearded, that would be a problem). i'm planning on putting together an 18 gallon tall tank to house several, but i need info! if you guys have any info on them, it would be GREATLY appreciated.
things like:
-non toxic foods(towards my beardie)
-soil bed:how deep and what kind
-how many can i keep in an 18 tall
-can i put live plants with them
-temp/humidity an issue?

any replies +/- welcome

 

[Noto]

Carolina.com sells this junk: http://www.carolina.com/product/living+organisms/animals/live+insects/hornworm+diet%2C+ready-to-use%2C+1-l+jar.do?sortby=ourPicks#; it serves as both diet and substrate.

I would expect it to be non-toxic, as they would have to go out of their way to put phytotoxins in it. Otherwise, I don't know of any non-toxic host plants that you could use; they prefer Solanaceae species, which are all pretty nasty.

In an 18 tall I would fill a dish with that stuff and use an inch or two of chopped coco fiber for the rest of the substrate; you want to maintain moderate humidity. You could keep as many in there as you have food for; they're not territorial and really don't need much space. The larvae pupate in the soil, so you don't need branches (though they will climb on them if available). Non-solanaceous live plants should be fine.

 

[Jory]

Carolina.com sells this junk: http://www.carolina.com/product/liv...iet,+ready-to-use,+1-l+jar.do?sortby=ourPicks#; it serves as both diet and substrate.

I would expect it to be non-toxic, as they would have to go out of their way to put phytotoxins in it. Otherwise, I don't know of any non-toxic host plants that you could use; they prefer Solanaceae species, which are all pretty nasty.

In an 18 tall I would fill a dish with that stuff and use an inch or two of chopped coco fiber for the rest of the substrate; you want to maintain moderate humidity. You could keep as many in there as you have food for; they're not territorial and really don't need much space. The larvae pupate in the soil, so you don't need branches (though they will climb on them if available). Non-solanaceous live plants should be fine.

awesome thanks!
i read that they need to burrow when they pupate, is there a specific depth of the substrate bed i should have? living in las vegas, our humidity is around 20% on a good day. i wouldnt need a humidifier, would i? there arent any recipes i could make at home? i guess i will do an order of that food then.
if i were to try to set up a breeding culture, how much space would i need for the adult moths?
and again, thanks.

 

[andyjs]

I've been looking into hornworms as well and I found this on a bearded dragon forum:

A Homemade Recipe for Manduca Diet

We have developed a diet composed of ingredients that are readily available in a large supermarket. Diet preparation requires only a kitchen blender and a microwave oven. The finished diet, having the consistency of tofu, can be easily sliced into any shape or size and the quality of the diet can be modified by adding or subtracting various chemical components.

1 cup (100 g) of non-toasted wheat germ (Bobs Red Mill, Milwaukie, OR)
1/3 cup (25 g) of nonfat dry milk (Sanalac, Fullerton, CA)
4 tablespoons of agar (generic)
1 teaspoon pure raw linseed oil (nonboiled, Sunnyside Corp., Wheeling IL)
1/2 tablespoon nutritional flake yeast (generic)
1 vitamin C tablet (1000 mg) (generic)
2 vitamin B tablets (generic)
2 multivitamin tablets (generic)
1 tablespoon of table sugar (generic)
2 1/2 cups water

1. Place vitamin tablets in blender and reduce to a powder. To this powder, add the wheat germ, powdered milk, and sugar and blend until the dry components are well-mixed.
2. Remove the dry mix from the blender and add 2.5 cups of boiling water. While mixing at low speed, add the agar. Be careful to replace the lid on the blender before turning it on. Blend for one minute and then add the dry mix and continue to mix.
3. Add the linseed oil and increase blender speed. You may need to manually blend the diet while the blender is running. The diet gets rather viscous at this point.
4. After blending for about 5 minutes, add the nutritional yeast flakes and continue blending for another minute. Components in the yeast are heat labile, thus, yeast is added as late as possible.
5. Once the diet is thoroughly mixed, pour it into a plastic tray that has a sealable airtight lid. The diet will solidify and remain usable for about 7 to 10 days if kept refrigerated.

I'm thinking about making them the main live portion of my beardie's diet

 

[Noto]

The chopped coco fiber is great for maintaining your humidity. Just add a little water periodically. If your tank is drying out quickly, decrease ventilation by covering some of the top with plastic or glass.

In my experience, they pupate just fine in an inch or so of substrate. Deeper substrate is probably better, as its moisture content will be more stable. A single brick of coco fiber will fill a ten-gallon tank (24" X 12" footprint) about one inch deep; I'm not sure what the dimensions of your tank are, but I'd say two bricks should give you plenty of substrate.

I have no idea what's in Carolina's food. There may be a recipe somewhere, but I haven't come across it.

If you want to keep numbers of adult moths, you will need a large mesh cage, probably at least 6' to a side. You can buy such cages from Bioquip.com, but they aren't cheap. Building your own is a better option. You may be able to feed them with hummingbird feeders and a sugar solution. I haven't tried this myself.

*EDIT* I was still typing while Andy was posting. That diet looks good, I'll have to save it!

 

[Jory]

I've been looking into hornworms as well and I found this on a bearded dragon forum:


I'm thinking about making them the main live portion of my beardie's diet

that recipe looks in depth! a good find, thanks.

The chopped coco fiber is great for maintaining your humidity. Just add a little water periodically. If your tank is drying out quickly, decrease ventilation by covering some of the top with plastic or glass.

In my experience, they pupate just fine in an inch or so of substrate. Deeper substrate is probably better, as its moisture content will be more stable. A single brick of coco fiber will fill a ten-gallon tank (24" X 12" footprint) about one inch deep; I'm not sure what the dimensions of your tank are, but I'd say two bricks should give you plenty of substrate.

I have no idea what's in Carolina's food. There may be a recipe somewhere, but I haven't come across it.

If you want to keep numbers of adult moths, you will need a large mesh cage, probably at least 6' to a side. You can buy such cages from Bioquip.com, but they aren't cheap. Building your own is a better option. You may be able to feed them with hummingbird feeders and a sugar solution. I haven't tried this myself.

*EDIT* I was still typing while Andy was posting. That diet looks good, I'll have to save it!

thats a lot of information, thanks

thanks for all the info guys!

 

[packer43064]

How dare you grow these awful critters. They are outside right now eating my tomato plants.......................but they don't know that I have put killer insecticide dust on the tomato plants. MUAHHH MUAHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jory]

How dare you grow these awful critters. They are outside right now eating my tomato plants.......................but they don't know that I have put killer insecticide dust on the tomato plants. MUAHHH MUAHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

doesnt sound too good for your tomato plants.

 

[packer43064]

doesnt sound too good for your tomato plants.

Just don't come to Ohio and release them.

 

[andyjs]

Yeah, it's too bad the wild ones pick up toxins from their food. It would be much cheaper to just pick them out of peoples' gardens if they were safe...

These guys have crazy fast growth rates. I swear a couple of mine doubled in size since yesterday. I'm about to have to refrigerate them to keep them small enough for my beardie