How do I build this take with the access needed?

[shan24]

Dear MFK friends,

After a long wait, I am finally designing my dream tank, and I need all the advice I can get from those who have done this in the past.

The tank / the house:
I am currently designing a new construction house along with the architect and developer
I have attached a drawing of the part of the house which will house the tank.

The main display tank will be roughly 8 ft x 30 " x 30" (1400 Ltr = 370 gallon).
The tank will be ideally flush against the front wall (of the living room), with the tank sitting in a specific built alcove which juts out in the rear
into the garden. While I would like this tank to be enormous, I am constrained by 3 things:
1/ The bigger the tank, the smaller the rest of the house due to council restrictions on the % of the block I can build on
2/ I need to be mindful of future resale / tenancy of the house, and build the tank in a way that the space for it could be repurposed for future use.
3/ I want the whole house to look proportional, ie not a monster tank that is way bigger in proportion than anything else (well, this will be way
bigger but not outrageously so).
... actually a further constraint.... .... 4/ wife
So, the compromise I have come up with is:



The tank is to ideally be flush against the wall like this:




This pic shows how the space for the tank can be repurposed in the future as either a study nook, a nice built-in bar space, or a sitting / reading nook.




What type of Planting / Fish / Density?
This is going to be a heavily planted display tropical freshwater tank for either angels or discus fish. (I used to be a hobbyist angel fish breeder for many years in my
younger days, meaning I bred and sold hundreds of angels to local aquariums but mostly in exchange for store credit or equipment).
Initially the fish stocking density will be low with only around 12-14 fish, but I intend to try and breed them so will end up with more fish as time goes on.

Basically something like this:
display tank: 8 ft x 30 " x 30" (1400 Ltr = 370 gallon).




but there's more:

As a part of the overall setup, I am also going to have a 2ft spawning tank
a 4ft fry raising tank in the same stand (underneath).
There will also be a shallow but broad based blackworm breeding facility.
All of these will not be visible from the front, but will need plenty of access.




Where Is the Tank?
For reference, I am located in Melbourne Australia where the summer temperatures reach mid to high 30degC (86-104 F) and the winter temperatures are 5-15degC (40-55 F).
So I do have to consider things like thermal insulation around the tank so as to manage power bills, as well as ventilation.



The Positives:
Since the house is going to be built from scratch, I will be able to get the plumbing, outlets, electricals, reinforced floor etc setup just right for my tank.


The Calculations:
I have estimated the following volume / weight calculations:


Total setup = 7495 Pounds

Questions:
(1) Tank layout
As the current drawing shows, the access to the tank is only from the front. The sides and back are in an alcove which is in the backyard.
So access to the rear of the tank(s) would be difficult unless I negotiate something totally different with the developers other than a solid wall.

Any suggestions on how to setup the tank for best access?
Doors at the back?
Access just from the front?
What about ventilation?


(2) Equipment
I am trying to make the equipment not visible from the front of the tank as much as possible.

I was looking at a fake background where the equipment is behind this space, but the problem is accessing this area if I only have front access.




Filtration.
After substrate, the display tank volume is 1300 Ltrs (350 gallon). The normal rule of thumb is to filter all the water 6x per hour.
This means close to 8000 Ltrs / hr filtration rate. (ie 2100 gallon / hr)

How do I handle this filtration volume given my limited space? Can I manage with 2 x large cannister filters or do I need a sump?
My calculations for a sump, based on a sump needing to hold 30% of the tank volume, means that the sump alone will be 5' and
will take up a bulk of the space under the tank. A sump like this would mean I don't have the space under the tank for the
rest of the setup I am hoping to keep.

Heaters.
Thermofilters? 3 x 300W heaters along the back? Any other recommendations?




Sorry about such a long post but I thought I'll provide as much context as possible. I have been dreaming about doing this ever since I was a kid, and finally I'm in a position to be able to do this.


Cheers,
Shan

 

[Ulu]

I really cannot answer all your questions but I do have some suggestions based on what I do. If you are building from scratch, just forget about canister filters, as they are an expensive nuisance in my opinion.

You might keep one on hand as a backup, just in case your main pump dies at an inopportune time.

I live in about the same climate, in central California, but drier I believe. It has been 95~105°F for 3 mos, which is a typical summer.

I have an outdoor sump for my largest tank. It also serves my patio tank. The 3 vessels and plumbing comprise a system over 200 gals, and I remodeled my house to accommodate it.

The biggest advantage to this system is that I can do all my water changes from the outdoors. I am never dragging a hose thru the house.

I have an accessory hose I use to siphon the tank indoors, and it just hooks to the service drain with a slip fitting. No buckets and no hoses.

I have extra large drains through the wall, using 1.5" pipes. I have p-traps in those pipes to prevent odor, noise or insects from entering the house (they will sometimes get into the sump.)

The service drain is throttled with a valve in the outdoor sump to make it silent. The Emergency Drain normally only runs a trickle (from a small bleed hole) to keep that trap full from evaporation. The Emergency Drain is unthrottled.

I have switches and breakers outdoors so I can control every aspect of the heating and filtration and circulation pumps while servicing the system.

The lighting switch is indoors and there is a master switch on the inside of the wall that shuts off everything for those three tanks at once. All electrical for the system goes through that master switch.

The indoor tank cools the outdoor water in summer, while the heaters are all in the sump. The sump is fully insulated, and the outdoor system will be enclosed by removable insulated panels during the coldest winter months.

I would consider planning for something like this, or an outdoor utility room, where you can conceal all of the sump, supplies, and plumbing necessary.

Even if your local building codes do not require it, I might seek the advice of a structural engineer and possibly a soils engineer. I used to work as an engineering consultant to Architects, and they come up with some strange situations sometimes.

I never did an aquarium professionally. I am not legally qualified to design one. Even if I was, the engineering rules are different in Australia. They are different everywhere you go. Here in California earthquakes are a big consideration. You might never have one where you live.

I have 8 glass tanks and one acrylic tank going currently. 3 are sumps, and 2 are very small.

 

[duanes]

I agree with Ulu, a sump out side, so all maintenance, and water changes can be done out there, with waste water going straight to the garden, or lawn. In winter a small green house over the outside area to provide insulation.

 

[Dloks]

I would do a Ultima 1/2000 filter for your tank. IMO with a beautiful in-wall tank like that you’d need a close loop system for stress free living

 

[Ulu]

I am designing the winter enclosure currently, and trying to figure out which way to put the vents so my vines can grow from them onto an arbor above. Only part of the panels will be Lexan or glass. The rest will be plastic insulated with styrofoam.

My house is wood, insulated with fiberglass bats plus styrofoam, under reinforced concrete stucco. In the remodel I added more styrofoam in the wall, outside of the new indoor tank, furring the wall out. All of this is detailed in the DIY forum . . . excruciatingly detailed, so be forewarned.

I'm growing vines from the outdoor tank, plus algae to reduce nitrates, and feed the herbivores. Yam roots grown in the tank are evidently very tasty, because the fish tend to strip them if unprotected. They eat the pothos roots readily too.

edit . . . .Solar exposure is a big factor. My patio tank is on the north-by-northwest exposure, so gets little direct sunlight.
I don't see a rose on your plan.

 

[shan24]

Ulu, thanks for the tips - I'll remember that one about the P trap. All invaluable tips.

Duanes, yep I'm going to see if I can fit the sump outside so that I still have space under the main tank for the spawning and fry raising setups.

Dloks, the ultima is an awesome filter, but from what I can see, even the smallest size is too powerful for a tank of this size. Not sure if the outlet pressure will be too much for docile discus and a heavily planted tank.

Thanks all.

 

[shan24]

I am designing the winter enclosure currently, and trying to figure out which way to put the vents so my vines can grow from them onto an arbor above. Only part of the panels will be Lexan or glass. The rest will be plastic insulated with styrofoam.

My house is wood, insulated with fiberglass bats plus styrofoam, under reinforced concrete stucco. In the remodel I added more styrofoam in the wall, outside of the new indoor tank, furring the wall out. All of this is detailed in the DIY forum . . . excruciatingly detailed, so be forewarned.

I'm growing vines from the outdoor tank, plus algae to reduce nitrates, and feed the herbivores. Yam roots grown in the tank are evidently very tasty, because the fish tend to strip them if unprotected. They eat the pothos roots readily too.

edit . . . .Solar exposure is a big factor. My patio tank is on the north-by-northwest exposure, so gets little direct sunlight.
I don't see a rose on your plan.

Ulu, how far is your sump located from your main tank? Did you need an extra powerful pump, or even multiple pumps along a long tube to get the pressure required? Can you also point me to the DIY post where you had the info about the external sump (I looked but was unable to locate it amidst the many posts there). Thanks again. Shan

 

[Ulu]

It's probably not completely described. It's about like this:


I show some insulation on the outdoor sump and tank above.
The final plumbing was different.


The 125g tank is inside the house, and the 55 is on a stand over the sump, just outside the house.
From glass to glass the distance is about 27"

One very small pump runs a fluidized bed sand filter on the sump and circulates sump water. It moves under 30 GPH by design.

A 365 GPH pond pump feeds the 55g above it. Head~38" and it makes 140 GPH net.
A 500 GPH pond pump feeds the 125 indoors. Head~30" and it makes 220 GPH net

The overall flow is modest, which suits the system, but I make the best use of the pumps with larger, low restriction Pipes.
There are no tight elbows on the pipes. Drains are 1.5" and returns 1"

Here, the plumbing runs between the house and sump.


In the photo above I had a return hose on the 55 and hadn't installed the good pipe.

 

[fishdance]

Hi Shaun, congratulations on building your new house!

First, I suggest you take a step back and think hard about why you wanted a tank in your house for so long. Try to list the reasons as this will help you to replicate and achieve the effects of what makes the perfect tank (to you). For some people it may be wanting to gaze out into another (underwater) world so an extra wide (front to back) tank would suit. For some, the effect of a wide seashore or riverbank so having a long long tank right across the room (does not need to be wide or high). For others having lots of different biotopes is the fascination so having multiple small tanks of different environments at different wall heights would work. For myself, I love gazing into the dark depths of the deep so my display tanks are very wide and deep - floor to ceiling glass. The only person who will know best is yourself so some self analysis or visits to various aquarium or exploring the web may help. Some of these effects can be easily achieved with some planning

Second, I would not be too worried about keeping the resale value of your house as that's the hidden cost of any serious hobby. If it costs you say $5-10K to restore the house for re-sale then factor that in and be sure that price is worth you having the tank.

Third, get a good aquarium designer to co-ordinate with your architect. While some of the previous suggestions may be helpful, you really do need professional advice if you want to get things right or at least be prepared to have several attempts in order to get things right. Having a dedicated drain, water tap and electric in place will alleviate the need for an outside sump but you will definitely need tank access as well regardless of where the sump is. Some of the common solutions for access are a hatch above the tank, a re-movable entire wall or sliding the tank & stand out. The main concerns with an enclosed tank are heat, noise and humidity. These can be addressed by a variety of designs. One example that springs to mind is a tank that used the house roof cavity to remove heat and humidity. This space also provided access into the tank itself (ladder) with solar tubes through roof to provide controllable sunlight into the tank reducing artificial lighting. For sumps under an enclosed tank, some ducted air fans can remove humid air and heat up beside the tank and out through the top. Design design design.

Finally, having a quick - extremely quick look - at your floor plan and without having any discussion with you, it looks like putting your tank outside the house with a custom window to view from inside is the safe bet BUT it is important you know what you want from your tank. If your tank is outside, you can throw up an insulated kit shed for all your breeding tanks and filtration. Shed being a cheap add-on and easy to remove.

Unfortunately getting a good aquarium designer can be difficult but I know of two in queensland if you want to send me a private message. Both run tank maintenance businesses so they know first hand what to avoid and what will work best if you can let them know what you really want. As an example I have a small shopping center that needed to be renovated. The builder was great and the architect was great and they produced an efficient and cost effective design that even squeezed in 4 extra carparks! Luckily through the maintenance guy (me) who previously had to clean three times each week, I knew this site has strong westerly winds so I knew that changing the carpark to a less efficient layout would allow the kerbs blow all the paper and trash into one corner for easy disposal. So even with great architects and builders, it is important you know what you want from your tank(s).

Try to get your wife into the discussion.

 

[Ulu]

. . . Can you also point me to the DIY post where you had the info about the external sump . . .

Sorry I missed this. The sump design is temporary and doomed to replacement. In the thread it's not much discussed. I had a 30g tank, 3 pumps, and some cut-down rectangular plastic buckets I perforated at the bottoms. I used 4 liters of well-cycled aquarium gravel and misc rock in each bucket, and that is 90% of my sump bio-media for 180 gals in a (theoretically) 210 gal system. I have about 3 liters of commercial bio-media. Water is pre-filtered thru disposable floss, sandwiched between pond baskets.

I have a hang-on sand filter I was given. I'm using it on this system for a while.

I have made many design compromises, and I didn't discuss them all. For instance, I don't have a bottom drain anywhere. It is often preferred in both tank and sump, for emergency drainage.

I designed the main tank for seated viewing and it's 12" to 16" lower than usual, thus I could use a weaker pump. It all runs quieter as well, though already very quiet indoors.

The need to repair my house, and the ownership of some parts also dictated much of what I did.
The tank size was determined by the existing masonry hearth which it occupies.

I designed this to be inexpensive and easy to do, and specifically to replace an unwanted fireplace, but I had to accommodate the existing structure as well. I couldn't just put a 96"x48" hole thru my wall and put the whole tank on the other side. This would have meant big structural changes for me, while building such from scratch is much cleaner and easier.

If I'd been willing to spend more money there are many things I would do differently, and in fact plan to do over time.

They include an oak and birch 2-tone canopy inside (not designed yet), a larger custom-built 40g sump (ordered yesterday) a vented "greenhouse" enclosure for the exterior system with lamps (designing this currently), an attached planter system, an arbor overhead for the vines, a more waterproof electric distribution box, an auto-top-off tank, and a larger RODI system.

What I've done is 100% experimental & I have a high risk tolerance.

You sound prudent, & If you can afford a pro designer it would be best, for many reasons.

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