I need some advice!

[Brickosaurus]

I recently set up a 55g native species tank. the current stocking is 10 orange throat darters that I caught from a local creek less than a mile away from where I live.

I have done a ton of research on this particular darter species. They get about 2 inches long and have a beautiful rainbow coloration.

The tank has been cycled, and I also have a filter that has an extremely high water flow, as well as an assortment of creek rocks, branches, and algae.

My main plan was to have a single pumpkinseed fish as the centerpiece, but I'm not 100% sure how well the Pumpkinseed would get along with the darters.

Now I also have a 29g with a wakin goldfish, and 4 rosey red minnows. Would it be a bad idea to put the goldfish and minnows with the darters, or should I have to worry about possible harmful bacteria that the goldfish aren't used to?

Any advice is welcome! Also, any tips and tricks about caring for darters would be appreciated!

 

[duanes]

As the pumpkinseed grows it will eventually be able to eat 2" darters, and in a tank as small as a 55, they will be easy enough to corner.
My choice of tank mates would local minnow species, or stickleback.
I used to SCUBA in darter habitat in WI in a channel between Lakes, Upper and Lower Nemahbin, and in the high flow habitat there, fish that shared it were all about the same size as the darters.

 

[Brickosaurus]

As the pumpkinseed grows it will eventually be able to eat 2" darters, and in a tank as small as a 55, they will be easy enough to corner.
My choice of tank mates would local minnow species, or stickleback.
I used to SCUBA in darter habitat in WI in a channel between Lakes, Upper and Lower Nemahbin, and in the high flow habitat there, fish that shared it were all about the same size as the darters.

Okay. Then I definitely won't get a pumpkin seed. So would adding the goldfish be a bad idea?

 

[duanes]

Okay. Then I definitely won't get a pumpkin seed. So would adding the goldfish be a bad idea?

Most goldfish will not appreciate the strong flow needed by the darters.
Not saying it wouldn't work, especially if they were common golds, but most of the fancies, don't do well in high flow environment.
The rosy reds will probably work though.
My tenancy would be to build a native biotope of endemic species, those from your local area, and similar habitat, not use Asian species like golds.
Just a personal quirk for me.
Although P-bass and oscars are feral here in Panama, perpetuating invasives in my tanks, just rub me the wrong way, so if they end up in my net, they are either thrown back, or given to local people to eat.
A while back while collecting, I caught feral African Tilapia in a Panamanian lake, they were also thrown back..

 

[Brickosaurus]

Most goldfish will not appreciate the strong flow needed by the darters.
Not saying it wouldn't work, especially if they were common golds, but most of the fancies, don't do well in high flow environment.
The rosy reds will probably work though.
My tenancy would be to build a native biotope of endemic species, those from your local area, and similar habitat, not use Asian species like golds.
Just a personal quirk for me.
Although P-bass and oscars are feral here in Panama, perpetuating invasives in my tanks, just rub me the wrong way, so if they end up in my net, they are either thrown back, or given to local people to eat.
A while back while collecting, I caught feral African Tilapia in a Panamanian lake, they were also thrown back..

Ok. Then I may just catch some local minnows. Although I'm pretty sure the wakin is a hybrid since it has the body of a wakin/fancy goldfish, but it also has a single tail. It's incredibly odd

I was just hoping for a good centerpiece fish that won't eat the darters.

 

[duanes]

Technically speaking, a hybrid is a combination of two different species.
All goldfish, whether a Wakin, Moor, or an Oranda, are all just line bred variations (Color or shape morphs) of the same species, Carassius auratus .

 

[jjohnwm]

I think the Rosy Reds would be a good combo with your darters. I kept a couple of darter species in the past and they were pretty insistent upon live foods when first brought home. They would switch over to frozen after a bit but still tended to pick and grab at individual food items that were being carried in the current, rather than inert items on the bottom. Keeping them with Rosy Reds not only kept the tank cleaner, since the Rosies would do a great job of picking up off the bottom the food items missed or ignored by the darters...but also the Rosies and their eager feeding tended to spur the darters on to be more aggressive feeders themselves. Rosies are interesting, stay small enough to be permanent and safe darter tankmates, and will do well at temperatures and flow conditions that suit the darters. When the Rosies breed, the fry will also provide snacks for the darters; Rosies themselves don't prey upon their young to any great extent.

Rosy males actually guard a nest when breeding, and although they aren't particularly aggressive or dangerous, you night need to keep an eye upon the interactions between the darters and the breeding Rosies in a tank as small as a 55. Plenty of caves, stones, driftwood, etc. would be helpful.

If you do happen to catch the "Biotope Bug" from...others on here ...it might be useful to know that Rosy Reds are just a colour variety (xanthic, I think?) of Fathead Minnows (Pimephales promelas), a common and wide-spread fish throughout much of North America; native in many places and introduced in many others.

 

[Brickosaurus]

I think the Rosy Reds would be a good combo with your darters. I kept a couple of darter species in the past and they were pretty insistent upon live foods when first brought home. They would switch over to frozen after a bit but still tended to pick and grab at individual food items that were being carried in the current, rather than inert items on the bottom. Keeping them with Rosy Reds not only kept the tank cleaner, since the Rosies would do a great job of picking up off the bottom the food items missed or ignored by the darters...but also the Rosies and their eager feeding tended to spur the darters on to be more aggressive feeders themselves. Rosies are interesting, stay small enough to be permanent and safe darter tankmates, and will do well at temperatures and flow conditions that suit the darters. When the Rosies breed, the fry will also provide snacks for the darters; Rosies themselves don't prey upon their young to any great extent.

Rosy males actually guard a nest when breeding, and although they aren't particularly aggressive or dangerous, you night need to keep an eye upon the interactions between the darters and the breeding Rosies in a tank as small as a 55. Plenty of caves, stones, driftwood, etc. would be helpful.

Got it. Since I can't seem to find minnows at any of my local creeks I'll just add the roseys. Any recommendations for a centerpiece fish? Ive heard that apparently wakin goldfish don't do to well with high water flow. Are there any cichlid species that would work with the cold water?

 

[duanes]

You may want to take in what's available at your local bait shop, and may be astonished at what pops up.
One of the shops in my area of Wisconsin would sometimes have contaminents of stickleback or madtoms or other local fish.
In my opinion a decent size shoal 6 or 10 small fish of a single species can act just as effectively as a centerpiece for a tank as one loner.

 

[jjohnwm]

Got it. Since I can't seem to find minnows at any of my local creeks I'll just add the roseys. Any recommendations for a centerpiece fish? Ive heard that apparently wakin goldfish don't do to well with high water flow. Are there any cichlid species that would work with the cold water?

I guess that would depend upon where you live and what temps you will be maintaining. I'm not really a cichlid guy; maybe there are species that will live year-round at cool temps (as opposed to just cooling down during winter) and which also don't grow up to be aggressive jerks, but I don't know of any. Darters are small, non-aggressive, fairly fragile fish; not really what one thinks of as cichlid-tank material.

Centerpiece fish? This is an aquarium, not a floral arrangement; I don't think in terms of centerpieces, but I do think that darters themselves are pretty impressive aquarium fish in their own way. If you can snag perhaps a few Rainbow Darters or similar colourful species, how much more of a centerpiece does your tank need?

Edited to add: duanes beat me to it; gotta type faster. Yeah, baitshops can be great sources for oddball natives from time to time; so can minnow traps and seines if you like that sort of thing. Or, if you are in the U.S. , why not check out places like Jonah's that sell natives? Some of the dwarf sunfish like Black-banded might work for you. They are, like darters, kind of picky about feeding and sometimes simply won't switch to frozen, but usually it can be done; Black-banded Sunnies are probably the easiest to train onto frozen of the dwarves.