I won't give up on the asian aro

[wizzin]

Ok, so after a LOT more diggin, I found this out:

Under CITES, species listed under appendix I (as the asian aro is) are prohibited from trade, except under article VII section 4, which states:

4. Specimens of an animal species included in Appendix I bred in captivity for commercial purposes, or of a plant species included in Appendix I artificially propagated for commercial purposes, shall be deemed to be specimens of species included in Appendix II.

This is why they are legal for trade in the rest of the world. Now, what is interesting is that trade in the pet hobby in species listed as appendix I and II is permitted through special permits from CITES. The requirements for Appendix II species (which by the above clause on captive breeding the asian aro falls under) are much less, and only require the exporter to be certified. The US does allow importation of species on the ESA and CITES provided you have permits from the ESA to import them. For example read this from the USFWS website:

# To import a snake listed in Appendix I you may also need a permit from us unless the foreign country has issued a CITES bred-in-captivity certificate. To import a snake listed under the ESA, you need a permit from us. Click here for an application form.
# You must import or export your pet boa through a designated port unless you have received a port exception permit. You must notify the FWS wildlife inspection office at the port of entry or exit at least 48 hours in advance, present our declaration form to the wildlife inspectors, and receive clearance from us prior to export or at the time of import. We will validate any U.S. CITES permits during this clearance process.

So essentially, you can import ESA and CITES listed species. However, right under "Boa" is "bonytongue" and it says:

What are the permit requirements to import an Asian bonytongue or arowana? The Asian bonytongue (Scleropages formosus) is listed as endangered under the ESA and in CITES Appendix I.

* These fish may not be imported for commercial or personal pet purposes.

Now what is the difference between a CITES appendix I bred in captivity boa which is also listed in the ESA and a CITES appendix I bred in captivity arowana which is also listed in the ESA?

I think something is fishy. Everything I can find by law shows that they can be imported, except when you ask about it, they say they're not.

 

[rottbo]

I have done massive amounts of research on the matter and while you can buy them (ilegally ) if you get caught with one they will take it.. to legally import them would take a ton of time paper work and then they will still find a way to make it impossible this is one thing that you should not brag about if you plan on trying local USFWS can still come in and confiscate your fish

 

[prophets]

Its a conspiracy I tell ya!
Maybe they feel that the asian aro's have not recovered sufficiently in the wild to be allowed the import exception with a CITES permit.

Go figure. Canada can get it no problem, various other countries but USA.

You're absolutely right, there is something screwy with that.
With numerous farms overseas that are breeding the aro's and are CITES certified you'd think by now it would be allowed.

One day. One day.

 

[davo]

It is a US law that is prohibiting them, which is the reason other international countries (like england!) are aloud them

 

[WyldFya]

It just isn't meant to be in the US. Your best bet to getting one, and keeping it is moving to another country, and I don't recommend Aussie land.

 

[wizzin]

I have done massive amounts of research on the matter and while you can buy them (ilegally ) if you get caught with one they will take it.. to legally import them would take a ton of time paper work and then they will still find a way to make it impossible this is one thing that you should not brag about if you plan on trying local USFWS can still come in and confiscate your fish

I would never buy one illegally. I have a wife and daughter to loose and a stinkin fish to gain.

What bothers me more than keeping a fish, which I enjoy, but could live without is the fact the US is once again the pompus "know it all" that thinks it has jurisdiction over the world. We have our own list of endangered species which doesn't actually agree with any other list. Not just with the arowana, but with species that the secratary decides to make exempt to suit the needs of their funding. It all comes down to money. The whole ESA isn't to protect species, it's to give overall power of species management to the government.

I like this line in the ESA the most:

" (a) MANAGEMENT AUTHORITY AND SCIENTIFIC AUTHORITY.-The Secretary of the Interior (hereinafter in this section referred to as the "Secretary") is designated as the Management Authority and the Scientific Authority for purposes of the Convention and the respective functions of each such Authority shall be carried out through the United States Fish and Wildlife Service."

And who is the "SECRETARY"? This guy: http://www.doi.gov/welcome.html

So, he has complete control of the management and scientific authority for the convention. That seems a little strange that one person has so much power in things concerning species existance. Why isn't there a council of top standing officials in science stearing this thing?

Whatever. I'm moving to Canada.

 

[wizzin]

EVERYONE NEEDS TO READ THIS!!!!

This is what I've been saying all along. All that needs to happen is the range countries need to create a conservation plan!

Asian Bonytongue
The Asian bonytongue (Scleropages
formosus) is a tropical freshwater fish
native to Indonesia, Thailand, and
Malaysia, and islisted as endangered
under the ESA and included on
Appendix I of CITES. Although the
species was historically harvested for
consumption, its demand for the
aquarium pet trade, along with other
factors such as habitat loss, resulted in
significant declines throughout its
range. Reclassification of the species
under the ESA is not likely due to
continuing concern for its overall status.
However, since the greatest single threat
to the species is illegal collection for the
pet trade, captive propagation that
results in a controlled legal supply of
specimens could significantly reduce
the pressure on wild populations.
Additionally, the breeding of native
species in captivity for commercial
purposes may, in some cases, facilitate
the eventual release to the wild of a
percentage of the progeny from such
operations.
In 1986, efforts began on the
development of captive propagation
techniques for the Asian bonytongue. In
1992, the first captive-breeding facility
was registered under the requirements
of CITES, and legal exports began. There
are currently 28 registered breeding
facilities in these three countries,
reportedly with an annual production
level of around 300,000 fish. Each
exported specimen is marked with a
coded microchip to assist law
enforcement efforts to help ensure that
only legally produced fish are traded.
The CITES requirement for certifying
facilities as bred in captivity is designed
to remove collection pressure on wild
populations and ensure that trade is not
detrimental to the survival of the
species, but CITES does not require in-
situ conservation projects.
Since the approval of the first captive-
breeding facility, we have denied
several permit applications for the
import of captive-bred Asian
bonytongue. As one of the world’s
largest importers of aquarium fish, the
United States could play a significant
role in encouraging conservation of the
Asian bonytongue through the issuance
of permits if we require, as a condition
of issuance of an import permit, that the
specimens are bred in captivity and, a
program is established to conserve the
species in the wild . Our willingness to
consider allowing import of captive-
bred fish under ‘‘enhancement of
survival’’ permits could provide an
incentive for development of new
conservation program

 

[Jesse]

The problem is that any such breed and release program would most logically use greens, due to their lower cost and higher likelihood of survival (comparatively drab coloration), while most of the market demand is for more brilliantly colored Asian arows.

 

[beblondie]

All that needs to happen is the range countries need to create a conservation plan!
too bad they don't seem interested in doing it

 

[Chaos32]

All that needs to happen is the range countries need to create a conservation plan!
too bad they don't seem interested in doing it

Unfortunately, what seems pretty straight forward on the surface is not quite what it seems. There is underlying politics, bickering, corruption etc. involved that will insure this process will be anything but smooth sailing. In the end, after the approval is given by the US and things are forgotten, some of these programs will fail.