Id on paratilapia?

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rmkblades

Piranha
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Nov 25, 2013
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Someone posted that bleekeri have never existed in the aquarium trade. Is this true? and why?

Also, I have a polleni, but picked up this guy a few weeks ago. Is this also a polleni? Thanks

New Paratilapia ???
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Paratilapia polleni
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It's not that they never existed, it's that the genus is in review, and as yet the scientific community is not quite certain how to do the proper nomenclature.
One of the main researchers was eaten by a crocodile.
For a while the large spot Paratilapia was called bleekeri, and the small spot, polleni.
But what species was actually described and called polleni first in science, and which was dubbed bleekeri is the question (or were they both the same or not). Confusing enough?
Add to that there are at least 5 location variants that may at some point each be given species status.
If you weren't given a location, then it is very hard to determine what you may have.
below are a few of mine
Paratilapia sp. small spot male

Paratilapia sp "Andapa

and one I bought at a LFS, that can really be only considered
Paratilapia sp aquarium strain (no location given)

a reason for the aquarium strain name is, before it was realized there were more than 1 or 2 species they were indiscriminately mixed, and may have hybridized allowing for even more confusion.
 
Cool, thanks for the info. That is nuts that one of the researchers was eaten by a crocodile...yikes. Definitely going to do more research on these amazing fish ;)
 
And the follow up to the 93 articles .........

Loiselle, Paul V.. 2011. "How many Marakely update". Buntbarsche Bulletin. (n. 267), pp. 18-24 (crc04424) (abstract)
As the confusion over the identity of the Paratilapia species presently in the hobby is largely due to misinformation for which I am in large measure responsible (Loiselle and Stiassny, 1993), I feel an obligation to try to clarify the uncertainty. Excellent detailed map with specimen type and collection points included
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There are multiple Paratilapia species, last count was 9 and there are more I'm sure so it's important to know the location of origin of your fish if you are interested on maintaining pure strains otherwise you are looking at a hybrid or an aquarium strain. Paratilapia bleekeri was collected once and described from the type locality and the fish hasn't been collected again because it apparently became extinct at the site of collection if I remember correctly. Duane has a gorgeous small spot Paratilapia that is worth spreading around so I hope you get them breeding and I'd love some fry :-)
Regards
Jose
 
According to those considered experts in this area (Patrick de Rham et al), and I quote;
However for the time being, I think we all agree (that is essentially Paul Loiselle and me!) that all the large-spotted populations of North Madagascar belong to Paratilapia polleni Bleeker 1868. As for Paratilapia bleekeri Sauvage 1882, it is a species that was described by Sauvage in 1882, 12 years after Bleeker described P. polleni. Sauvage collected his fish near the then Royal city of Antananarivo, now the capital of Madagascar, in the central highlands. This population now seems to be extinct, but we know from Noro R, a Malagasy ichthyologist that last saw them in the 1980’s that they had large spots. (Previously P. bleekeri, had been put back into synonymy with P. polleni by Pellegrin.). For lack of recently collected material it is difficult to say if the large spotted populations of Paratilapia from the North (P. polleni) and from the Centre belong to the same species or are distinct and therefore we cannot definitely state on the validity of P. bleekeri.
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Not to put Duane on the spot (no pun intended), but does he have a collection location for those small spot polleni?

The reason I ask is that I can state with 100% certainty that those who were first importing some of these Paratilapia in the late 80's early 90's did not know the collection locations of their fish, nor the species involved. I personally know one of those importers, and those farm fish simply became "small spot" or "large spot".

If there is only one geographical location where "small spot" are collected, as in Paratilapia sp. East Coast, then I guess that would answer my question.
 
I didn't get a location on the "small spots" when I got them at an auction back in March 2013, and don't know if the original owner knew. I was just pretty happy to get 4 adults for only $50.
Next time he comes thru town, I'll put him on the spot.
Below Back the day of the auction.
 
So is it safe to assume that only one variant/species of "small spot" exists? Does anyone know? Just wondering now that my eyes have been opened to just how many different sp. are now being collected in their native waters.
 
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