I'm at a loss for once

[Hybridfish7]

So I got that group of platinum honduran red points from Rusty Wessel at triple crown... Still have them... Still no fry. I have what looks to be two males and two females, they show pairing behavior, they even spawn, but I get no fry. I get fry from their normal colored siblings, who I also got from Rusty. The "males" have dots on the soft rays of their unpaired fins and such, but when they drop their tubes for spawning, both have egg tubes. The real confusing thing is now I have one of the pairs in one of my normal colored colonies, and they both show pairing behavior with eachother, but they also both show pairing behavior with biggest normal colored male. I don't know if they have a threesome thing going on or what but all three guard this one rock pile and dance for eachother. I am actually at a loss for once.

 

[duanes]

I don't believe in keeping two of the same genera (Amatitlania) in the same tank, risking mixing of variants.
And as soon as I notice a pair getting ready to spawn, give the pair the tank all to themselves.
In most cases in nature this happens naturally because pairs have unlimited space to pick place aways from the others and raise fry in peace.
Most tanks do not allow for that amount of space

Male left............female right.
Together in breeding colors, in a separate tank to spawn and raise fry unmolested

 

[Hybridfish7]

I don't believe in keeping two of the same genera (Amatitlania) in the same tank, risking mixing of variants.
And as soon as I notice a pair getting ready to spawn, give the pair the tank all to themselves.
In most cases in nature this happens naturally because pairs have unlimited space to pick place aways from the others and raise fry in peace.
Most tanks do not allow for that amount of space
View attachment 1534581View attachment 1534582
Male left............female right.
Together in breeding colors, in a separate tank to spawn and raise fry unmolested
View attachment 1534583View attachment 1534584
View attachment 1534585View attachment 1534586

I never said anything about keeping multiple species in the same tank. All of the fish in the tank are Honduran red points of known and legitimate ancestry. The weird ones of ambiguous sex are just leucistic. As I said some of the non leucistic fish in the tank are their siblings. The leucistic ones, as well as their non leucistic siblings, are from Rusty Wessel himself, won at an auction at his house.

To my knowledge all amatitlania are naturally colony spawners. They have no problems spawning in close proximity to eachother. In my experience, as long as there are potential nesting sites, a pair will form to occupy that nesting site. My original HRP colony (3 foot tank) at its height hosted 4 pairs spawning at the same time. About 70 fry made it to about an inch long before I sold them off. Rusty's HRP colonies were about the same size.

 

[duanes]

It's interesting what an aquarist might consider a large area for a close knit spawning colony, of multiple spawning pairs, could be something in the order of a 6 ft tank.
But the reality of actual space in nature that a colony of cichlids may inhabit, and raise multiple spawns, might be a stream that is 20 ft wide and hundreds of feet long, such as the small streams below in Central America.

 

[Chet E.]

For some time I've been maintaining A. myrnae. They've been called an endangered species, which is curious because Amititlania are supposed to be easy to reproduce. Experience has given a more clear picture. I've seen my pair court for years before spawning, then be so preoccupied by courtship, only to fail to care for the spawn. I wonder if this may explain in part their endangered status.

 

[Hybridfish7]

For some time I've been maintaining A. myrnae. They've been called an endangered species, which is curious because Amititlania are supposed to be easy to reproduce. Experience has given a more clear picture. I've seen my pair court for years before spawning, then be so preoccupied by courtship, only to fail to care for the spawn. I wonder if this may explain in part their endangered status.

Their endangered status is more because of the size of their range and the active threats to said range. To my knowledge myrnae only occupies like 2-3 rivers (once you narrow it down and ignore tributaries). Their range is still about the size of a small state in the US, but there are a lot of actively habitat destructive threats in their range right now.

Also if you're having trouble breeding myrnae, ime it's because of temperature. If you keep them over 77 their eggs won't hatch. Mine spawned biweekly when I kept them at room temp (about 69-72F). They have since been moved to my dad's tank, and are kept at 83, where they still spawn, but haven't had eggs hatch in about a year.

 

[duanes]

My myrnae also easily spawned, and were great parents.
I used swordtail as dithers. But again, once a pair formed and became compatible, I gave them in their own separate tank.

Agree about the small range, and man made environmental threats, found only on the Atlantic side of eastern Costa Rica, and western Panama.

 

[duanes]

Just an experiment I did about 10 years ago, and although its not about HRPs specifically, it refers to colonies of Central American cichlids.
At that time, I had 6 mated pairs of Herotilapia mutispinossa (rainbow cichlids).
In stead of separating pairs, (as I normally would), I transferred all 6 pairs to a 400 gallon kiddy pool, to simulate the way they would fan out in nature.
All 6 pairs regularly spawned in the pool, over the next couple months.

Although the pool was 400 gallons, each pair would snipe the others spawns, and no fry ever survived during the experiment.
Probably because 400 gallons, is nothing compared to the acres that pairs would fan out into, in Costa Rica, in nature.

I did hold 1 pair back in a separate tank, and their spawn hatched out, and did fine.

 

[Hybridfish7]

For some time I've been maintaining A. myrnae. They've been called an endangered species, which is curious because Amititlania are supposed to be easy to reproduce. Experience has given a more clear picture. I've seen my pair court for years before spawning, then be so preoccupied by courtship, only to fail to care for the spawn. I wonder if this may explain in part their endangered status.

Also I will say amatitlania have kinda been bastardized by the chain store trade strain convicts, who have been mass produced for nearly 80 years now and bred to be extremely prolific. The first ever imports of "convicts" to the US were from Honduras, which could either be legitimate nigrofasciata if they were caught north of Choluteca, or what I believe should be described as siquia if they were caught around Choluteca or around the nicaraguan border. Whatever they were, they've likely since been crossed to a plethora of other lineages in attempts to increase genetic diversity in broodstock (mainly prior to people caring about maintaining localities).

Amatitlania is split into two subgenera, being amatitlania and bussingius. Bussingius contains myrnae, septemfasciata, nanolutea, altoflava, and sajica. Bussingius species are a bit more finicky in terms of spawning, as most of them have conditions that need to be met to spawn. Less of a just add water kind of thing. I've kept and spawned all but altoflava. All will spawn frequently with the right conditions and a good pair bond, but myrnae, nano and alto need cooler water, alto also needs high oxygenation and a bit of water movement, septemfasciata and sajica need warmer water, but even then I will say septemfasciata is more of a just add water species. Species in the subgenus amatitlania are pretty just add water as well, but the guanacaste lineage is a bit later maturing (only able to or preferring to spawn at around 2" as opposed to the 0.5" I've seen in true nigrofasciata), and of course the Honduran/Salvadorian/Guatemalan locales are not as prolific (smaller spawns, 50-200 eggs) as the nicaraguan/North Central CR ones are.

 

[Hybridfish7]

Update: idk if they were both females or what but one of them spawned with the big normal colored male.