irridescent sharks red streaks

[2songbirds]

I've been doing much researching on this, but do not want to turn to meds to treat. I'm totally dumbfounded as to what is causing this. I noticed last week maybe that one of my ID sharks had a blood patch on his bottom fin. Now, it's progressed to the outside of his one gills, and the other fins. I will try to take a pic and post, but I don't know if it will show up. On the one gill, it's not bleeding from the gill, but red streaks outside the gill.

I've had the ID for 1 1/2 yrs. ~10" in a 125gallon. 125g has a fx5, fluval 404, aquaclear 70 powerhead for UV sterilizer. 2 bubble wand walls for extra surface agitation. It has sand, no more than 2" worth.

PH 7.4
ammonia 0
nitrites 0 (don't have nitrate test)
Oxygen is good....>8mg
temp is 78* (no heater, room temp maintained at 72* yr round)

My only thought is it's an internal bacteria infection, but have no idea how. One of my other ID sharks are starting to show a little bit of redness at the base of one fin.

I cannot tell if it's isolated in just this tank as we had moved around a lot of fish in the last 2 weeks. Except these ID sharks have been in the 125g. They should be doing better since I took relocated the small inhabitants into another tank, but they aren't. I have not noticed this particular ID shark still eating. In other fish I noticed red streaked fins, but the 3 goldfish were attacked by a catfish. Assuming they were injured. My tinfoil barbs in another tank have the same, but blamed it on them fighting amongst each other.

I do NOT want to medicate. I have sensitive catfish in there as well, nowhere to move them, and I don't have a big enough quarantine tank for this ID shark. I 'm hoping water changes will help, but I need to find the source.

I checked, no foreign objects that I can tell in the tank (ie pennies, kid toys, etc). I lost last month my flowerhorn which I had to treat for hole in the head (parasites). She eventually died from hemmoraging from the meds. She was kept by herself. I'm now wandering if somehow remnants of the med got into the other tanks enouigh to cause this damage, as I do use the same cleaning equipment from one tank to the next. However, these other tanks had carbon in the filters.

any help, insight appreciated. I'm hoping water changes will help, but I don't know what I'm up against. In the past I learned that hemmoragic septecemia always killed the fish eventually, depsite meds...

 

[Lupin]

What test kit did you use?
What is your nitrate level?
What med was previously used?

At the moment, my guess would also be bacterial infection, Aeromonas hydrophila to be exact. Normally this occurs only as a secondary infection. When a fish becomes injured, regardless of the cause, the bacteria infiltrates the bloodstream from the wounds, thus the fish is likely sickened with infection. At the moment, I'd advise to add a teaspoon of salt (no yellow prussiate added) per gallon.

What antibiotics do you have access to? I'm curious which meds you have access to and which ones might actually help/harm your fish.

 

[2songbirds]

yesterday after posting this, I sent hubby out to get up to date test kits while I did massive water changes (50% on 265g and 30% on 125gallon with the ID sharks). AFTER the water changes, we did the tests...the nitrates were high in the ID shark tank. I was surprised....7.6ph, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, yet 40/80 nitrates. We immediately got a working on the fx5 filter as we knew it was last cleaned in June. It was filthy, but I've seen much, much worse. This morning the ID shark was looking better. Blood wasnt' as red, yet didn't get any better. Same thing tonight...better in some ways, yet in the other shark, it worsened.

the test kit is API I believe.

I do have access to various antibiotics (maracyn 1 and 2, tetracyline,etc...don't remember all). Ones I used in the past that killed my old ID were coppersafe for parasites. The more recent ones I used in the other tank was for hole in the head...metrodenzidole (sp???)

I originally assumed it was a secondary infection as he did have scrapes on his side. Yet, another shark started showing similar signs who was not beat up.

The tinfoil barbs in the 265g are a LOT better today after the massive water changes. SO, I'm ruling that out separate from what's going on with the ID sharks.

I have to watch what meds I put into the tank as it also harbors a rtc, achara x tsn, giraffe catfish, and an old oscar

would the more sensitive cats be able to tolerate the increased salt? I"m just hoping water changes will do it, but right now I"m wondering....the last time I encountered this was 10 years ago, and depsite those antibiotics (maracyn) the fishies didn't survive...

Im not looking necessarily to prolong the inevitable with this fish, but to prevent a multitank breakout..however, to lose this ID shark would break up the trio, as the 3 have bonded over the last 1 1/2 yrs together....

 

[Lupin]

High nitrate would have caused this issue. Not all fish have the same level of tolerance to high nitrate as others do. Glad to see you figured out the high nitrate and corrected it quickly!

The copper sulfate can stick on silicon sealant and other decorations for a long time. Did you use carbon on your last copper treatment? Though it will not guarantee complete copper removal, it would have minimized the traces of copper at some extent enough to avoid further damage to your fish. I'd prefer to advise usage of copper only for velvet disease issues and do this in a spare tank personally.

At this point, I don't see any reason to use the meds since it seems clean water is doing its job well. Just keep watching your parameters though and if it seems water quality maintenance is tedious, then your only option is reduce the number of fish for the sake of everyone.

Catfishes can tolerate as much as two to three teaspoons of salt per gallon as long as gradually added and dissolved properly. It's why when you have to use salt, I advise adding a teaspoon per gallon every 12 hours. The gradual process will prevent osmotic shock from happening which can even kill your fish.

Metronidazole is one of the mildest treatments along with praziquantel. A recommended dosage would be 250mg per 20 gallons.

Lastly, tetracycline is more effective in acidic pH whereas kanamycin works the opposite manner. But you cannot use kanamycin in bloat cases as it can contribute to renal failure. This is just additional info you may need. I'd stock kanamycin if you haven't yet.

 

[Cichkeepr]

My 4 IDs have had a history of secondary bacterial infections over the 6-12 years that I have had them. Usually I just thoroughly syphon out debris in their tank, keep the water clean with 20% water changes every 3 days and use 5 tbsp of salt per gallon. I also raised the temps to 84 degrees. The condition goes away on its own.

But there was a time when it didn't and each fish was affected, then I had to medicate because their fins were deteriorating so then I had to use the Maracyns 1 &2. I didn't have to remove their 4 biowheels during treatment of 5 days. After treatment, I did a 40% w/c and the tank went through a short mini-cycle. The fish have all regenerated their fins and all is well.

 

[2songbirds]

Thanks for the great info Lupin!!

the times that I used medicine (such as coppersafe and tetracyline) with my ID sharks were ones that I had 10 yrs ago...they were in a tank that I no longer have. From that one experience, watching my decently sized ID sharks bleed to death that they actually turned the water orange, I vowed to never use meds unless it was a last resort...as I had to do recently with my old flowerhorn...

I still have yet to retest the water today, I did so last night, but didn't take note of that tanks parameters as I also tested 2 other tanks.

We did dramatically reduce the amount of fish in that tank....there's the 3 ID sharks, 5" rtc, 12" achara x tsn, an old oscar, 4-5" giraffe catfish, and a small pleco.

Their fins are looking better, the blood isn't as prominent, but is still noticable as the fins are all tainted/stained red, opposed to bright red streaks. The bigger ID who was mostly affected started eating again last night finally, which is a great sign of course.

I've been maintaining water changes every other day.

I'm still surprised how all this seemed to creep up on unexpected. I'm sure though there were signs that I was too busy to stop and notice. Valuable lessons learned...

 

[2songbirds]

Just wanted to update, as I love updates myself that all 3 ID's are still thriving. I've made it a point to smell the water in the tanks as that's my first indicator that the filters need cleaned. It was so much easier for me to check the filters before upgrading to the fx5's (we have 1 in 3 out of 4 tanks). THey are just too heavy for me to budge so I always have to bribe hubby to help me. BUT, they're all doing great, no more red streaks or such