Is there such a thing as "over" filtration?

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Buphy

Dovii
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Jun 10, 2015
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so I'm considering trying to "rent" tanks to small local businesses. Something that I'd like to be able to do is instantly set up a tank for clients with out having to "cycle" it. The first solution that pops into my head is have the filter already going and established, basically making it move to a new tank a 100% water change.

The question is, will I run into any problems if I just pile additional filters onto my tanks or have a tank specifically for pre-cycling these filters?

Thanks for any input y'all have!
 
Depends on the size of tank or tanks you are filtering. What size tanks. What size filter? What is the population of the tank?
 
Light to no stocking, 6-10 filters rated for 30-75 gallons all on a 75 gallon tank.
 
Light to no stocking, 6-10 filters rated for 30-75 gallons all on a 75 gallon tank.
Beneficial bacterias will only populate to the amount of stock level you have. They don't just keep over populating if there isn't enough ammonia/nitrite to feed the population. So, the taking a bio media from an established tank will give an "instant cycle" to a new tank, only if the new tank has a smaller stock level
 
I agree with Xraycer, unless you have some fish producing waste (or are adding pure ammonia regularly) you won't get a good enough population of bacteria in those filters to start up a tank with fish, without cycling.
If you want too start up a tank with 10 large fish, your filters should be in a similar tank.
 
The way I see it is, you need more tanks. Set them up, keep a heavy bioload in each with the media inside the tanks in pre-determined amounts, instead of decor/substrate...they dont have to be pretty show tanks....then, when a client is astablished, move that media to the filter. Let your trial and error be at the shop, not the customers tank.
 
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Hello; While there may be some unit for bioload, I am not aware of it. I will make up one for the purpose of an illustration/example.
Let’s say there is a ten inch Oscar in a tank. I do not think the size of the tank matters for this example as the beneficial bacteria (bb) population will adjust in proportion to the ammonia (food) available to them. Let us say this idealized Oscar produces a bioload of 100 BLU's (BioLoadUnits).
So in your commercial plan you would need to have a constant ammonia amount available in your shop tanks to keep the bb alive at 100 BLU's. If you set up a client tank using a combination of fish that produce 75 BLU, then the media from the shop tank would indeed be an instant cycle in effect. The extra bb that are not getting enough ammonia should simply die off over time.
If, however, you set up a client tank having enough fish to produce 200 BLU's then that same amount of media from the shop tank will only have enough bb to use half of the ammonia produced. There will likely be an ammonia spike until the bb population can increase to use the extra ammonia
So, in the hypothetical shop tank, it could be set up this way. have a set of ten filters running at the same time. I do not think the flow rate needs to be especially strong in each filter, just enough to keep a decent and equal flow between them. You could have each of the ten filters ready at a rate of 100 BLU's by keeping the level of ammonia at 1000 BLU's equivalent. You could use the liquid ammonia as described in various fishless cycling posts.
The trick will be how to judge the ratios of ammonia to bb and then the ratio of bb needed for a particular amount of fish in a client tank. My approach would be to overload the client tank with, say double the amount of BLU equivalent to the estimated need.
All this should likely be able to be worked out by being very diligent with the water testing and keeping detailed records. After a time you could have some standards as guide lines.
This was written pretty much off the top of my head so may well have some serious faults. Time to brainstorm and do some feedback critiques.
 
Great points and I completely understand. One question though, and correct me if I'm wrong, but one problem with under gravel filters is that they use the gravel as biomaterial and if not properly taken care of, the BB take up too much oxygen and so you can basically choke out the fish. Therefore wouldn't it be difficult to do heavy stocking as the fish would not have enough oxygen or would I just have to use bubblers to try and to increase the oxygen on the water?
 
Great points and I completely understand. One question though, and correct me if I'm wrong, but one problem with under gravel filters is that they use the gravel as biomaterial and if not properly taken care of, the BB take up too much oxygen and so you can basically choke out the fish. Therefore wouldn't it be difficult to do heavy stocking as the fish would not have enough oxygen or would I just have to use bubblers to try and to increase the oxygen on the water?

Hello; First the under gravel filters (UGF). I must have missed any parts of the thread about using UGF. I have, however, used the UGF's many times over the decades. At one time they were the only filtration I used in tanks. I have used them in heavily stocked tanks and in tanks before I discovered the value of regular water changes. It was also a time of my overfeeding. While there were some issues in those setups, oxygen depletion was not a problem as I recall. I ran the UGF's with bubblers and often extra air stone bubblers. I also used a slightly coarse gravel substrate, bb sized and larger, which allowed some flow thru the gravel bed. I also kept live plants the tanks.

Next; There are at least two types of filtration. Mechanical is the type where the water is pumped thru some sort of media that traps the bits of detritus and can remove it from the water column. These are the HOB's, canisters and such. These filters do double duty as they also become a physical surface for the bb to colonize and the bb do the bio-filtration. The bio filtration is the only thing the UGF's actually do. The bio-filtration in a cycled tank changes two very toxic products thru the actions of at least two kinds of bacteria so we wind up with a less toxic product (nitrate). Live plants can use up some of this nitrate and we dilute the rest with regular water changes. So yes the cycling process needs oxygen. I also suppose that tanks can have too much fish biomass and that oxygen could become a limiting factor in a heavy stocked tank. Such heavy stocking will have other negative issues as well.

last; The use of plenty of bubblers can help make sure there is enough oxygen in the water of a tank. I think of such heavy stocked tanks as tightrope tanks, always on the edge of some sort of serious issue.

Back to what I had interperted as you plan. I did not envision using fish to provide the ammonia for feeding the bb in the shop tank. I was thinking of using the liquid ammonia from a bottle as the ammonia source. If live fish are used, then when you robbed the bb loaded media to do a quick setup in a client tank it would likely result in an ammonia spike in the shop tank. Bad for the fish. Using bottled ammonia would, it seems to me, eleminate that issue.
Another benefit of using the bottled ammonia might be that the shop tank could be a plant grow out tank. At least that is where just thinking about it leads me.

here is a link i use for reference.

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/nitrogen_cycle.html#nitrification
 
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