L418 vs the rest...

[David R]

After looking at the pictures of young to medium sized L418 in the PlanetCatfish cat-elog I'm struggling to figure out what (if anything) can be used to tell the species at a younger size. It looks as though the base colour is more of a grey to green-ish colour than the creamy white of L190, and unlike L191 the eye can be more of an orange-ish colour. Certainly a lighter colour than the dark brown eye colour of L191. It also looks like the dark stripes are narrower than the light base, unlike the more even coverage of L190.

I have some pictures of a fish that I'll post later, but I'd like to get some feedback on what the key differences are, if any. Besides, I've just chucked in a handful of food and I'm watching as I type, trying to get a better shot!!

 

[Jackson]

First the pics on PC are not of the right fish they're all wrong IMO most are 191 some could be 418 but I haven't looked at that profile in ages.

There's a few threads here in which I explain the differences between 418 and 191. They really don't resemble any other panaque other than 191.
IME the easiest to tell them apart is base colour, pattern is not as broken on most unlike 191 which really have broken up lines, eyes as you mentioned are lighter and the tail has a golden yellow colour outline. Another thing is the window fills in from the middle out not like all the other panaque which fill in from the end of the tail towards the body

Hers two of mine when they were younger
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[David R]

Attachments don't seem to be working.

 

[Jackson]

The monster App is screwed up I hope it works this time






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[David R]

Yeah the app is funny at times, I have to continually uninstall then reinstall it.

Yours has far more yellow on the tail that my fish, but the base colour looks very similar. Here are some pics.

This one was taken around 6-7 months ago at about 4", and the pattern has changed considerably since then, and the growth has been fairly quick by Panaque standards.


Here's a couple more taken yesterday, he is more like 6" now, two without the flash, two with.









The first two pics show the base colour more accurately than the two taken with the flash, it is a grey-ish slightly green colour, quite different to the other three "royals" in the tank. I may just be clutching at straws, but since day one there has always been a bit different about this fish. The catfish nut at the LFS pointed it out to me when it first came in and I snapped it up immediately. It has grown steadily and faster than any other Panaque I've kept. The colour and pattern has always stood out as being "different" to the others too, but the teeth are arranged in a fairly acute V shape, so it certainly isn't an L27 variant. I'll take some better pictures when I transfer it over to the 2000L tank in a month or two when it is running and ready.

 

[Jackson]

It looks like a 190 or possibly 330 ruling out 330 would be easy if it doesn't develop spots on it's belly.
There are some amazing looking 190's out there this one looks like it will develop into one of them.
Looking forward to some other pics in the future


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[David R]

So what makes you say L190 over L418? I'm not questioning or doubting your ID, but given that these are two scientifically described species (P. nigrolineatus and P. titan) there must be some sort of physical characteristics that can be used to define which is which. I've tried searching fishbase but the entries for both species are nearly blank...

 

[Jackson]

So what makes you say L190 over L418? I'm not questioning or doubting your ID, but given that these are two scientifically described species (P. nigrolineatus and P. titan) there must be some sort of physical characteristics that can be used to define which is which. I've tried searching fishbase but the entries for both species are nearly blank...

Simple answer is everything about it

The colour, body shape, pattern, it's eyes, fins and probably the fact that it's not too difficult for me to determine what I'm looking at even though I'll be honest the pics aren't the best for a positive ID
Nothing about this fish looks like a P. Titan to me. The two don't resemble each other in any way. 191 on the other hand can be hard to tell apart from P. Titan depending on the individual fish.

Here are some P. Nigro of mine with one P. Titan in the middle


Not the best pic but here is 3 P. Titan and one P. Nigro in the middle of the tree


P. Titan


P. Nigro



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[David R]

Maybe the pics don't show it well. Looking at your pics all the L190 have fairly even stripes (the width of the dark vs the width of the light) and the stripes are very "regular" stripes along the length. The L418 stripes are more irregular and broken, which to me is more like my fish. I'd love to get a pic of it sitting next to one of my other royals, though that doesn't happen too often. Maybe I'll chuck some courgette in and try lure them out.

I'm struggling to tell the difference with body shape by looking at your pics too, you must have far better trained eyes than me if you think the two species "don't resemble each other in any way"!

I feel like fishing the damn thing out of the tank to take some decent pics of it! I guess time will tell, hopefully the steady growth continues once it is in the big tank and in a year or two it will be more obvious. At what size do the patterns on L418 start to break up?

 

[Jackson]

Smallest I've seen in person was 3" 418 and it already had the slightly broken pattern nothing like 191 though


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