Labidochromis caeruleus (Yellow Lab) is holding, I have ZERO experience with this...

[terd ferguson]

I'll try to be brief. I've been neglecting my Africans getting my big tank together and gathering fish for my CA/SA project. Not neglecting in the sense of taking care of them. But neglecting them in the sense of paying them much attention besides feeding and water changing.

A couple of days ago, I spent a few minutes in front of the tank, remembering instantly why these fish fascinate me so. So, I notice one of the female Yellow Labs looks funny. There's an odd bulge in her mouth. It looks like something dark is in there. My first thought is baby fish. Nah, couldn't be? Could it? A quick interweb search confirmed she is holding.

You see, I have ZERO experience with breeding fish. I've learned so much in the last couple of years about caring for them, but nothing about breeding because it's never happened. Well now it has, and here's where you guys come in. I need help, suggestions, advice, etc..

I'd like to try to see these fry make it and not get eaten. I can trade them to my lfs at the appropriate time. I have a 10 gallon tank with filter and heater with nothing in it I can use to isolate this female and her fry. I need to know pretty much everything there is to know as far as what to do.

Like, is the 10 gallon ok for this? Are there any special considerations for temperature I don't know about? What about feeding the mom (she hasn't eaten much lately)? Let's say she's been holding for at least a week (I'm not sure exactly), how long til the fry are swimming outside her mouth? What do I feed them? Do I need to do more frequent water changes in this tank and how much? Basically, I need to know everything- your tips, your tricks, your advice, etc..

The tank she's in now is a 54 gallon corner tank with the following tank mates:
6 Labidochromis caeruleus (Yellow Lab, 4 males, a couple are close to 7" & 2 females)
1 OB Hybrid Peacock (unknown sex)
1 Metriaclima estherae (Red Zebra, unknown sex)
2 Aulonocara rubescens (Ruby Red Peacock, unknown sex)
1 Astatilapia obliquidens (Zebra Obliquidens, male)
2 Hemichromis lifalili (Neon Jewel Cichlid, unknown sex)
1 common pleco (unknown sex, over 12" long)
Everyone gets along fine, but logic tells me I shouldn't leave the holding female in there if I want to raise these fry.

Thanks in advance for any and all help and/or suggestions and thanks for this great forum.

 

[terd ferguson]

In the mean time, I'll be reading and researching. But I'd still appreciate all the help and advice I can get. Thanks again.

As a bonus, here's a shot of the tank (this shot is a few months old, the tetras and gourami are long gone, they were left over from an old tropical setup)...

 

[ikevi]

So first off don't worry about her eating, while she is holding she wont eat. (I could last more than a month).

Just so you know you will soon have more labs that you know what to do with. Even if you don't keep taking them out they will breed every few months and somehow they will survive. So make sure your lfs will take lots of them in, I honestly doubt they will.

Anyways since she has been holding a week in there and all seems fine, wait at least another week. Don't do anything odd or different than usual. Then after she has been holding for at least 2 weeks go ahead and catch her after they have been in the dark for a few hours. That way you will stress her the least. (And also that way since she will have held for 2 weeks at least then the fry will at least be free swimming if she lets them go when you are catching her.)

Than in the 10 you can either strip her and put her back in, or let her keep holding the whole month. Either way is fin for the fish.

For feed fry, newly hatched brine shrimp is the norm though they will gladly eat crushed flakes. I tend to feed ~4 times a day to fry.

The first time problems happen, so if it does don't worry. Like I said in no time flat you will be cursing these little guys but at the same time going yeh when you see she is holding again.

There is a ton more info on the web, I just gave an overview. It really is as easy as letting her hold and then she lets go free swimming little fish that will eat whatever they can fit in their mouth.

 

[Dreamsofpeace54]

< ok im your man.

i had the same thing happen to me awhile ago. i thought i had an all male tank, breeding wasnt on my mind with school and everything. Came home one day and my yellow lab (mama) had a mouthful. i was like ****. theres no other yellow labs in the tank wtf is going on. i didnt know at the time but they can mate with peacocks, and a redshoulder peacock she did. So i wanted them and ran out and got a 10 and used water and filter pad in the tank and added her. since i wasnt feeding her i wasnt worried about ammonia spiking.

blah blah blah

1. separate her, she'll get beat up with the males.
2. dont try and feed her, she wont eat.
3. She may eat the eggs, she'll get hungrey. Don't be detered though, she'll learn.
4. You can strip her, if u want. (Hold her mouth open and let the fry swim out.
5. After she has had the babies give her a week or to to resume normal eating and get well before readding her to the main tank.
6. My first batch was around 25, and my girl was only 2.5 inches. You may expect alot more but if this is her first batch youll never know.

Fry care:
ive had the best luck feeding the hikari first bites, nls grow, and crushed cichlid flakes. For faster growth change alot of water the hormones that cause grownth stopage will build up fast and cause slow growth.

I still have my female. She has a 28 bowfront practically to herself and her little clown pleco. Occasionally she will hold again. I strip her on the unfertilized eggs, so she doesnt get stressed fromnot eating etc etc.

Good luck lemme know if u have any other questions.

i kept 3 of my fry to grow out (3 males) the rest were sold. Heres a pic!

 

[niqolas619]

Hey man, I'm by no means an expert in this area (especially compared to what a lot of the other people on here have done), but I have dealt with one of my labs having babies twice in the past few months.

The first thing that I would say you need to do is get that filter for the 10 gallon into your main tank so that you can get a bio load going on it. Remember that you're gonna basically have a new tank, so you have to get the cycle going just like any other tank (you could just add some of your substrate from your 54 to the 10 gallon).

The second thing is I wouldn't worry about your female for right now - meaning she'll be fine in the tank with the other guys and it is perfectly natural for her not to eat much (if at all) while holding. If you want to raise as many of the fry as possible, you're gonna want to "strip her" of the eggs/fry. I do this somewhere around 14-20 days. The main thing is that you don't want to strip her too soon because you'll have to take more complicated steps along the way. At the same time, if you wait too long, she'll spit the fry out and many of them will get eaten in the tank. I was nervous about stripping mine the first time I did it, but it really is just as easy as explained.

Once you decide to strip her and are able to catch her, you just need to get a small flat object to gently open her mouth. I usually leave her in the net sitting at the top of the water while doing this. If you hold her in one hand in the water and hold her mouth open with the object (I just use a toothpick) the fry will slowly find their way out. I don't like to hold on to her for more than about 5-7 seconds at a time - I don't know if this is too scientific, but they don't necessarily like to be held so I wouldn't try to get em all out at once. It usually takes me a couple minutes, because I'll give her a break in the net for about 5 seconds, then hold her mouth open for 5 seconds, etc. You'll probably be surprised at how many fry she'll have, depending on how big she is. Mine are around 3", and I got about 20-25 fry both times.

After getting all the fry (or as many as you can without stressing her too bad), you can let the mother back into the main tank. For the first couple of weeks the fry are out, I keep em in a little breeder container in the 10 gallon because they're just so small and it's easier to keep an eye on em and get them food. I feed em either this powder food or crush up some NLS for em. They won't eat a lot for the first few days, but they'll eventually come around. I try to keep the water parameters around the same as my main tank, but I keep the temp a little higher - probably around 84F. I change out a couple gallons of water every couple of days - it's really easy since it's such a small amount, so I figure it's best to keep the quality as high as possible.

This got to be a lot longer than I initially intended, so I'm gonna cut it off for now. I can try to help you if you have any questions. Good luck, Terd.

 

[terd ferguson]

That's all great advice so far. Thanks very much and I'm looking forward to more.

***EDITED TO ADD***
Above in the stock list where it says "Astatilapia obliquidens", it should read "Astatotilapia latifasciata". My mistake. All is well, go about your normal business.

 

[terd ferguson]

Hey man, I'm by no means an expert in this area (especially compared to what a lot of the other people on here have done), but I have dealt with one of my labs having babies twice in the past few months.

The first thing that I would say you need to do is get that filter for the 10 gallon into your main tank so that you can get a bio load going on it. Remember that you're gonna basically have a new tank, so you have to get the cycle going just like any other tank (you could just add some of your substrate from your 54 to the 10 gallon).

The second thing is I wouldn't worry about your female for right now - meaning she'll be fine in the tank with the other guys and it is perfectly natural for her not to eat much (if at all) while holding. If you want to raise as many of the fry as possible, you're gonna want to "strip her" of the eggs/fry. I do this somewhere around 14-20 days. The main thing is that you don't want to strip her too soon because you'll have to take more complicated steps along the way. At the same time, if you wait too long, she'll spit the fry out and many of them will get eaten in the tank. I was nervous about stripping mine the first time I did it, but it really is just as easy as explained.

Once you decide to strip her and are able to catch her, you just need to get a small flat object to gently open her mouth. I usually leave her in the net sitting at the top of the water while doing this. If you hold her in one hand in the water and hold her mouth open with the object (I just use a toothpick) the fry will slowly find their way out. I don't like to hold on to her for more than about 5-7 seconds at a time - I don't know if this is too scientific, but they don't necessarily like to be held so I wouldn't try to get em all out at once. It usually takes me a couple minutes, because I'll give her a break in the net for about 5 seconds, then hold her mouth open for 5 seconds, etc. You'll probably be surprised at how many fry she'll have, depending on how big she is. Mine are around 3", and I got about 20-25 fry both times.

After getting all the fry (or as many as you can without stressing her too bad), you can let the mother back into the main tank. For the first couple of weeks the fry are out, I keep em in a little breeder container in the 10 gallon because they're just so small and it's easier to keep an eye on em and get them food. I feed em either this powder food or crush up some NLS for em. They won't eat a lot for the first few days, but they'll eventually come around. I try to keep the water parameters around the same as my main tank, but I keep the temp a little higher - probably around 84F. I change out a couple gallons of water every couple of days - it's really easy since it's such a small amount, so I figure it's best to keep the quality as high as possible.

This got to be a lot longer than I initially intended, so I'm gonna cut it off for now. I can try to help you if you have any questions. Good luck, Terd.

Ok, first of all, I've got the filter for the 10 gallon in my bigger tank doing it's thing. I guess I plan to use good water from the bigger tank to fill the 10 gallon. I'll also scoop out some gravel from the bigger tank and add it to the 10.

How long should I run the filter in the bigger tank before moving it to the 10 gallon? How long before fish can be safely added to the 10 gallon? I could put a gourami in there to speed the process up a bit if you guys think it would help.

My goal is to get this 10 gallon going as quickly as possible to move the female holding because I don't know exactly how long she's been holding. It could be a week or possibly even two weeks.

Thanks again for the help. It is greatly appreciated.

 

[niqolas619]

How long should I run the filter in the bigger tank before moving it to the 10 gallon? How long before fish can be safely added to the 10 gallon?

That's something that's gonna be hard to tell to be honest. Ideally I would say you would want the filter to run in the main tank for at least a week, but since time is an issue I would think a few days might be alright. It will help that you're adding seeded gravel to the 10 gallon as well. You're only gonna have one fish in the 10 gallon, and she won't be producing much waste, so it isn't exactly the same as having a new tank with 5 or 6 fish that are eating.

So I would say give the filter 3 days and add a fair amount of the substrate to the 10 gallon. You don't need to necessarily add it as the substrate for the 10 gallon, just put it in a filter sock or nylon or something. I don't know the reason for this, but most people's grow out tanks that I see don't have any substrate in em, so I don't keep much in mine. It makes it easier to clean, for one, so that is nice. Just make sure you test the water parameters of the 10 gallon a few times within the first few days to make sure you aren't getting any kind of spike.

One last thing: I wouldn't really use the water from your main tank to fill your 10 gallon. As has been said before, there isn't really any bacteria in your water, mostly just nitrates and other non-beneficial items. Maybe fill the 10 with about 5 gallons from the main tank, just to make sure that you have a similar pH and stuff. Either way, let the 10 run for at least a few hours with the filter in there before transferring the female over there.

 

[mike dunagan]

< ok im your man.

i had the same thing happen to me awhile ago. i thought i had an all male tank, breeding wasnt on my mind with school and everything. Came home one day and my yellow lab (mama) had a mouthful. i was like ****. theres no other yellow labs in the tank wtf is going on. i didnt know at the time but they can mate with peacocks, and a redshoulder peacock she did. So i wanted them and ran out and got a 10 and used water and filter pad in the tank and added her. since i wasnt feeding her i wasnt worried about ammonia spiking.

blah blah blah

1. separate her, she'll get beat up with the males.
2. dont try and feed her, she wont eat.
3. She may eat the eggs, she'll get hungrey. Don't be detered though, she'll learn.
4. You can strip her, if u want. (Hold her mouth open and let the fry swim out.
5. After she has had the babies give her a week or to to resume normal eating and get well before readding her to the main tank.
6. My first batch was around 25, and my girl was only 2.5 inches. You may expect alot more but if this is her first batch youll never know.

Fry care:
ive had the best luck feeding the hikari first bites, nls grow, and crushed cichlid flakes. For faster growth change alot of water the hormones that cause grownth stopage will build up fast and cause slow growth.

I still have my female. She has a 28 bowfront practically to herself and her little clown pleco. Occasionally she will hold again. I strip her on the unfertilized eggs, so she doesnt get stressed fromnot eating etc etc.

Good luck lemme know if u have any other questions.

i kept 3 of my fry to grow out (3 males) the rest were sold. Heres a pic!

How did the babies turn out? you sold the babies? to who? did they know it was a hybrid? Just wondering...

 

[terd ferguson]

I just thought I'd share a small update. The holding female is in a little 10 gallon tank that she has all to herself. I haven't decided whether to strip her and return her to her big tank or let nature take it's course. She still seems to be doing fine, she's not too skinny. I guess I'll decide in a day or two.