how rare would they be? i live were there is a large population of both lng and sng. they obviously can hybridize but how often could/would it occur? i have a few new spots to go collecting this year and i have seen and heard of many gars in these areas. almost caught some last year and talked to some dnr electro fisherman doing a catfish study and they said they mainly just see gars with them being mixed of the 2 sp. i have high expectations of finding some this year as i will be doing more time searching. are the chances of finding one of these hybrids higher then finding a xanthic gar or something similar?
Lepisosteus osseus x Lepisosteus platostomus
- Thread starter sbuse
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ryan i thought you may have had some info on this. looks like it will have to come from solomon or richard.
i am going to be searching for them in areas that are mainly canoed by leafers and fished by walleye guys. not alot of interest in gars around here but they are out there.
another question is which way would i have to go to make them? male lng x female sng or male sng x female lng? since i will be doning gar breeding in the not to distant future. i know it will most likely need to be done with hormones, but i have some connections that have experience with it and i will be talking to them on it.
i am going to be searching for them in areas that are mainly canoed by leafers and fished by walleye guys. not alot of interest in gars around here but they are out there.
another question is which way would i have to go to make them? male lng x female sng or male sng x female lng? since i will be doning gar breeding in the not to distant future. i know it will most likely need to be done with hormones, but i have some connections that have experience with it and i will be talking to them on it.
Solomon and Richard are the go-to guys on this type of stuff, and I can't say much of anything with any certainty on this matter.
With that being said, I don't see why there wouldn't be any hybrids in the mix because of how gars breed (multiple males on one female). I don't believe that it matters as far as what species is the male and what species is the female although it might help if male longnose gars and female shortnose gars were used in order to help with the size differences. Of course, this is all purely conjecture on my part, so I make no guarantees.
Also, you'll be getting a PM from shortly about these gars.
it is likely that if the two species are intermingling that hybrid forms will be around. at what frequency is not really possible to determine. it can also be somewhat difficult to pick the hybrid fish out of the crowd. recent work has show there is not a standard "look" for these fish.
interesting, i'll be looking for anything out of the normal looking gars. is there anything that kinda sticks out from the others that shouldn't be to hard to see? i have both sng and lng in my collection all around 18" so i can see the key differences up close. would one of the traits be a thick bodied longnose with a slightly shorter snout then other equally sized longnose?
also how many have solomon and yourself encountered in your collections?
i will be doing a kinda "mass collection" of both sp. and any other oddballs will be set aside to be looked closer at. i have a few plans with this hybrid and other gars as well.
i have seen a vid were one gar kinda looks like the one you have pictured for this hybrid on the website you guys have, i'll look for that vid and post it. i will try to get the time i see the gar in question to see what you think.
also how many have solomon and yourself encountered in your collections?
i will be doing a kinda "mass collection" of both sp. and any other oddballs will be set aside to be looked closer at. i have a few plans with this hybrid and other gars as well.
i have seen a vid were one gar kinda looks like the one you have pictured for this hybrid on the website you guys have, i'll look for that vid and post it. i will try to get the time i see the gar in question to see what you think.
here is the vid i was talking about. i have posted it before, but i don't remember what i did it for then. the gar i was referencing was the middle one that you see after the tail moves at 2:20. i may just be looking to deep into it, but regardless of that you can see the intermingling of the 2 sp. clearly from the vid. not my vid, but one of the areas i will be looking for the gar since it is only a few hours away from me.
[video=youtube;-X0y4OH_4nw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X0y4OH_4nw&feature=fvsr[/video]
[video=youtube;-X0y4OH_4nw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X0y4OH_4nw&feature=fvsr[/video]
There are actually a few in there that I'd suspect being hybrids.. We (Solomon and I) have run into a few of these to this point. Hard to really say exactly what to look at for them. The clear intermediate forms are fairly obvious but there are some that bend the rules a bit.
ok...i was thinking there was more then one odd looking gar in that vid, but was sure of one.
it is good to know that you have found more then one. i hope to find some. i will be looking in the same place this vid was taken so there is one potential spot to get some.
a lot of the spots i will be going to i have noticed that only shortnose gars are ever caught by the dnr, though they both are there. for example just north of the spot the vid was taken. there is a few off channel creeks/bays that interconnect with some small to mid sized lakes. those channels and lakes are 4-5' deep for the most part. the dnr survey says that they have caught an abundant number of shortnose gar and they are the dominant predators along with some pike and high numbers of bowfin. do you guys see that often in your areas? longnose present, but seem to evade capture by dnr nets.
just some things i have been thinking about. now i have a few boats set up for night fishing and they will be rigged with a livewell system. i just have to figure out a good lighting system. i can't wait to go looking!
it is good to know that you have found more then one. i hope to find some. i will be looking in the same place this vid was taken so there is one potential spot to get some.
a lot of the spots i will be going to i have noticed that only shortnose gars are ever caught by the dnr, though they both are there. for example just north of the spot the vid was taken. there is a few off channel creeks/bays that interconnect with some small to mid sized lakes. those channels and lakes are 4-5' deep for the most part. the dnr survey says that they have caught an abundant number of shortnose gar and they are the dominant predators along with some pike and high numbers of bowfin. do you guys see that often in your areas? longnose present, but seem to evade capture by dnr nets.
just some things i have been thinking about. now i have a few boats set up for night fishing and they will be rigged with a livewell system. i just have to figure out a good lighting system. i can't wait to go looking!