Lets Talk Ph and Ph Products

[Nosetotail]

After several hours of dosing and testing I have learned that I have some tough water to lower the ph in. I have also learned that I can't trust the accuracy of some common trusted products. The problem is, I don't know which.

I started with some API Ph down and spent three hours dosing and testing only to get some slight hint of green which is supposed to be around 7+ a few. I did a small test on a pint of water which amounted to about 16 doses and that only got a little more green. Of course by the next morning it was solid blue and I can't really tell the difference in the browns with the API ph high test, but I'm in the eights anyway.

Yesterday, I tried some Seachem neutrality 7.0, with similar results;however this time I only had solid blue. This really frustrated me. I tried a small sample with six or more doses, and still not the slightest hint of green.

At this point, I broke out the pool test kit from my local pool store(not an el cheapo Warmart kit). According to this test I was actually around 7.2 to 7.4 which should have had a little green in it with the API ph test.

Finally, I resorted to using my filtered water from my refrigerater. I know this is excellent water as we have had it tested, and it is close to Rainsoft filtered soft water(very pure). I think the fridge filter is basically a mini good quality RO filter. Ph started in the eights, and dropped to 7.6 with the pool kit after one dose and 7.4 to 7.2 after two doses using the pool test kit. I'm still solid but lighter blue with the API which would be around 7.6.

So now I can't figure out if my API ph test is in error, or if the 7.0 buffer isn't accurate or if it is a combination of both. Just one note, I am figuring my dose based on three gallons. The instructions suggest a 1/4 teaspoon for three to five gallons. I also tried a mini sample on the filtered water that amounted to about six doses and the results were the same as two doses so I'm pretty certain that the best I'm going to get is 7.4 to 7.2 and I certainly don't want to add six doses of this stuff to my tank.

So I'm just wondering if there is something I'm missing here. I can't know for certain if the pool kit is accurate, and not reacting some with the buffer however it does yield me the closer reading the the supposed 7.0 I'm supposed to get. Regardless, I can't get the slightest hint of green using the API test and that would suggest that my buffer is up to .6 off or my test is off. Any thoughts?

 

[Industrial]

Why are you trying to alter your pH? By doing this, every water change will stress your fish because the water parameters will be different.

Also, test the waters gH and kH. If kH is high, you need to lower it to change the pH or else your pH will just jump back up. Typically if you want to create different water parameters I would recommend using RO water and adding some kind of pH stabilizer afterwards. As for your fridge water being RO water, RO water should be no higher than seven and is typically slightly acidic (probably from absorbing CO2 from the atmosphere).

But keep in mind, if your pH is high, your LFS probably has high pH water too and if you buy new fish you have to slowly acclimate them to your tank or else they will go into shock.

 

[creepyoldguy]

Don't mess w it. You're just going to cause future problems when you do water changes. Simply acclimate the fish you buy and be happy

 

[Nosetotail]

^I have to admit that I'm not keeping fish. I came to this forum because it is the only one that is large enough to not be ruled by a prevailing mantra. I'm keeping freshwater turtles that aren't that particular about PH. However, I have seen references saying that a slightly acidic ph inhibits bad bacteria growth and that bad bacteria thrive in higher ph water. One of my turtles just got an infection and that has me concerned about the high ph so I set out to try and lower it.

 

[Aqualoon]

Messing with your pH is never a good idea unless you're keeping a sensitive wild caught species. Have you tried something like a UV sterilizer instead? I'll admit, I know nothing about turtles, however MFK does have a subsection for them. Maybe you could pose this question and ask for recommendations there.

 

[Nosetotail]

Why are you trying to alter your pH? By doing this, every water change will stress your fish because the water parameters will be different.

Also, test the waters gH and kH. If kH is high, you need to lower it to change the pH or else your pH will just jump back up. Typically if you want to create different water parameters I would recommend using RO water and adding some kind of pH stabilizer afterwards. As for your fridge water being RO water, RO water should be no higher than seven and is typically slightly acidic (probably from absorbing CO2 from the atmosphere).

But keep in mind, if your pH is high, your LFS probably has high pH water too and if you buy new fish you have to slowly acclimate them to your tank or else they will go into shock.

Yeah, I don't know for certain what a true RO is but the little standard filter unit that comes with Frigidairs is a high quality unit, it just doesn't have a large capacity.


As to gh and kh, I have seen reference to these, but I don't know what they are. I guess kh is potassium hardness. but I can't figure out what gh is.




One other thing, and I already know I'll probably get a big "No! What are you thinking?" but can I just use a few drops of Muriatic or Sulfuric pool acid to lower the PH about a day before I do a water change. I have both, and I saw that PH Down used Sulfuric.

 

[Aqualoon]

Here's a little blurb about pH, KH and GH (link here).

 

[kamikaziechameleon]

In my experience if you buffer the tank in a given direction you have better results than say directly raising or lowering water ph parameters. If you want it high put crushed coral in your sump/canister and if you want it lower put peat or something in the filter, or lots of softer drift wood in that tank. I never actually treate water to aquire a ph just buffer it in a certain direction. Hope that helps.

 

[Nosetotail]

^I figured that using the Seachem 7.0 neutralizer was what you are suggesting, but then I balked when I realized I was going to have to megadose just to get results with my tap water. I am considering the peat as an option, but I'm kinda running out of room in my XP2 canister filter. Now I wish I had just spent a few dollars more and got an XP3. It would have been way overkill on the circulation, but I would have a lot more media options right now.

Messing with your pH is never a good idea unless you're keeping a sensitive wild caught species. Have you tried something like a UV sterilizer instead? I'll admit, I know nothing about turtles, however MFK does have a subsection for them. Maybe you could pose this question and ask for recommendations there.

I almost bought a JBJ Reaction canister with UV sterilizer from Big Al's but passed since I was leery of a few things. Now I don't think I want to spend the dough on a regular sterilizer. I'll check out the turtle section, but again I'm afraid it will be ruled by a few prevailing ideas and that is what I'm shying away from.

Here's a little blurb about pH, KH and GH (link here).

Good read. He is saying the same thing about high ph that another popular turtle pro is saying about bacteria and lower ph. I have already seen quite a bit of contradictory information on the subject. The one thing that remains the same is that turtles aren't as particular about ph as fish. The problem is I can't find definitive science backing whether low or high ph is better for warding off infection. Now that I read that article, I think I will just leave it alone.

My vet did suggest I condition my fresh water with some aquarium salt for the same reason of warding of infection, which I just started. The problem is he suggested one cup for twenty gallons which is far greater than a rounded table spoon for five gallons which is what the manufacturer suggests. One tablespoon verses a quarter cup is quite a big difference.

 

[aclockworkorange]

Your waters kh is basically it's ability to neutralize acid... So if your kh is high, any acid based products you add will just be "buffered" out and won't drop your ph. So, really the only reliable way to lower your kh long term is to buy an RO unit or buy RO treated water, which will cost more in the long run.