male CA cichlid community questions

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adamsfishes

Aimara
MFK Member
Jan 31, 2016
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My new 180 is now cycling, so it's crunch time to make a decision on what to actually stock ...

One idea I've been pondering is to do an all male community of CA cichlids that max out in the 10-14" range. I've seen lots of people do this with success, but I'm not experienced with larger growing aggressive cichlids.

In your opinion:
1. How many cichlids do you need in a setup like this to keep the aggression at a managable level?
2. Is a 180 even big enough to attempt to do this?

Thanks!
Adam
 
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My new 180 is now cycling, so it's crunch time to make a decision on what to actually stock ...

One idea I've been pondering is to do an all male community of CA cichlids that max out in the 10-14" range. I've seen lots of people do this with success, but I'm not experienced with larger growing aggressive cichlids.

In your opinion:
1. How many cichlids do you need in a setup like this to keep the aggression at a managable level?
2. Is a 180 even big enough to attempt to do this?

Thanks!
Adam
What you don't see in these setups is all the work in the background to make it work. Many extra tanks growing out new fish that will in turn get their trial in the main tank. Any fighting is handled quick with removing said ***hat and replace with another. I wouldn't try this with anything less than a 8x3x3.
 
As I’ve got 2 setups like this let me play devils advocate.

What everyone has said about growouts, hospital tanks and separating fish is 100% correct.

This is achievable but you are going to need to do fin level WCs each week.
I would structure my stock around a big passive fish, such as a Pearsei, bifa or syn-
And have that be the biggest fish.
Then add in fish of other genus’s that are smaller- but not total maniacs like nics, JDs, hericthys sp, etc.

Something I want to do is 3-4 snooks a Pearsei and a 2 male nics.

It’s best to start with a lot of individuals and widdle down to what works. You may want sturdy, larger bottom dwellers to help break up territorial aggression as well.

Just my $.02
 
I tend to lean to the side of caution in these situations. 180 is a decent size tank but you will have limitations with a lot of the foot long c/a fish.
What species did you have in mind Adam?
I do agree that often, one big cichlid will cohabit with a group of the smaller c/a s.
A lot will be down to your own personal perspective of what equates to fair living conditions for a group of 12inch cichlids.
I once grew a group of melanura to adulthood in my 7x2x2. I ended up with 1pair. I think the male was around 14 inches and the female about 9 inches.
It was around this point when I started to see things differently.
They filled the tank and made my 7x2x2 look tiny. The fish were fin perfect and in very good health. They were beautiful and some of the nicest fish I had ever kept.
The trouble was, at least from my perspective, they looked trapped.
My fish keeping philosophies changed and the size of fish I kept got smaller.
This was for me, the most rewarding lesson I have learnt since keeping fish.
If you have an itch, then scratch it but be very surprised by a smooth journey with multiple large c/a cichlids in a 180.
Would you consider a group of social cichlids of the same species. Some of the c/a earth eaters can get between 6 and 10 inches, tolerate each other well and make a nice display. Cribroheros spring to mind as does rheoheros for example.
 
I agree with the other notes of caution above.
The idea is often carried over from the African cichlid camp, that because a large population of males can work if crowded, this will also work for Centrals.
But these Africans are often Mbuna or peacocks that max out in the 6-8" range (if that).
But try to do this with some of the large Africans, in the 12-14" range like Tyranochromis, or Loboochilotes, and a 180 might only handle a pair.
I had a 12-14" pair of Fossorochromis rostratus that would allow no other Africans (or any other cichlid for that matter) in a 150 gal tank, (same floor plan as a 180 only a few inches shorter). They started as a group of 8, and after the male killed off all other Africans in that tank, he also killed all other Fossochromis except 1, the female he spawned with
And those Africans that it works for, live naturally in quite social communities, unlike Central Americans where large males will stake out a large territory, and wait, sometimes for long periods, for ripe females to pass, attacking any other males, females in the vicinity or not.
Central Americans are territorially quite different, so the lack of females is often not a determining factor.
If you were to do the tank with more social Centrals, like Thorichthys, Cribroheros, or Amatitlania, your chances might be good.
But large solitary species may be pressing your luck, the females of these often travel in social groups, but not mature males, I've watched mature JDs defend large territories of 250 gallons square or more from any approaching males, while females traveled in loose shoals.

And get don't me on the kind of water changes you'd need to with a large cichlid population, in a 180.
I'm staring at my 180 at the moment, thinking about how small it is, in reality.
It appears quite small with its population of a dozen Andinoacara's, largest not more than 5"..
 
Having done something similar, I'd advise against it in a 180. I did an all male vieja tank in a 150. I tried all I could to have success, got all my fish at 1-2in and grew them out together, stayed away from the more aggressive species (zonatus, black belt), chose only male fish, had the tank void of decor so they couldn't claim territories and still (like I was warned) it ultimately failed. It did however work for a couple of years until the fish reached 9-10in and to be honest it's my favorite tank that I've ever kept. Everything goes well until #1 fish decides to beat up #2 fish and then the hierarchy is thrown into chaos. Ultimately I think a tank of all vieja could work, but I would try in anything less than a 240 or 300gal. You just need more room for 12-14in fish to get away from one another.
 
But large solitary species may be pressing your luck

This - the key words being large, and solitary.

I also wanted to add that many measure success in weeks or months, not in years. So when you read about a so called success story, keep that in mind.
 
What species did you have in mind Adam?

My top fish right now are probably Herichthys carpintis and Amphilophus lyonsi. I've thought hard about doing a species tank with a group of one of those two. I also like vieja, sajica, nanoluteus, gold barred Midas, and Parachromis...

I'm starting to appreciate nice flowerhorns. I'm warming to the idea of maybe trying for a FH pair. I know they are abominations, but the good ones are damn nice looking.

In the "all male" setup, I was thinking maybe one each of carpintis, lyonsi, synspila and maybe a pearsei. I know it's a risky setup and would be a high bio load at full size. It would be stunning though...

I also thought about doing a more peaceful setup with a male pearsei, a male Oscura heterospila with a group of sajicas, maybe some nanoluteus too.

I should also note that I have gravel in my aquarium, so unfortunately I'm not considering anything that sifts sand, like Thorichthys. I'll start a thread talking about my new setup soon, when I have more than 10 minutes to log in...
 
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