Maximum acceptable ammonia during cycling

[tcarswell]

I tested my new 55 today and it has been cycling about a week with the help of a small cycled filter and a volcano rock from an established aquarium.

Params were

ammonia .5
ph 8.0
nitrite 0
Nitrate 10

Whats the max amount of ammonia should I allow before a water change? Im using three giant danio's to help the process along

 

[CHOMPERS]

Right now the pH is the problem. Ammonia is exponentially more toxic at a high pH than a low one. I don't remember the toxicity ratio but you can look it up if you want. Half a ppm of ammonia at 8.0 is far worse than 1.0 at a pH of 7.0, as weird as it sounds.

Anyway, test your tap water to get a base line. If it has a high pH then keep the ammonia low and accept a longer cycle period.

I'm gonna take a stab and say your tap water has 10 ppm of nitrates.

 

[CHOMPERS]

Oh, by the way, to answer your question...
.5 ppm is fine if you can get the pH down.

 

[Toby_H]

I'm gonna take a stab and say your tap water has 10 ppm of nitrates.

Remember, he is using a small established filter and a rock from an established tank... So that could also explain the nitrates at such an early stage...

I've also heard that ammonia has a greater effect at higher PH levels, but I don't remember any details on it. My local water has a very low PH so I tend to forget the things that don't apply to me.

In simple terms, the higher the aoomonia is the worse it is and any level is bad for your fish. When Cycling with fish we are essentially desiding to allow some level of harm to come to the fish we are using. With that in mind, I would suggest keeping the ammonia lower rather than higher. I would suggest a max of 1.0, but that is built on my experience with PH in the lower 6's.

As long as there is any measurable amount of ammonia that means there is food in the water for bacteria. Higher levels do not necessarily equal faster cycling. It's a much more complex formula than that, although I'll openly admit I couldn't explain the formula with any detail. If your concerned about the long term health of the Danios, I would be conservative and do the water change sooner rather than later. If they are just cycling fish that will get eaten by your Cichlids in the next year or so anyway then I wouldn't be concerened with levels up to 1.0.

I can't say this is the right thing to do... but that's what I would do...

 

[CHOMPERS]

I've also heard that ammonia has a greater effect at higher PH levels, but I don't remember any details on it.

Maybe you heard it in post #2.



...Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

My other wise ass comment was going to be about drinking so early in the morning but I couldn't figure out how to put both into the same post. Oh wait, I just did.

 

[Potts050]

Oh, by the way, to answer your question...
.5 ppm is fine if you can get the pH down.

Far be it from me to dispute any advice from Chompers, but I would like to point out something in regards to BB and pH. The higher the pH th greater the toxicity of ammonia, as this ion has two forms-ammonia and amonium that exist in the following equillibrium;

NH3 + H2O <=> NH4 + OH

If there is a higher pH then there tends to be a higher concentration of OH ions which pushes the reaction to the left, producing more of the toxic NH3. If the pH is high as a result of higher carbonate hardness, kH then there will be more available carbon for the beneficial bacteria to work on the ammonia, so it will tend to breakdown faster.

High pH is a double edged sword when cycling a tank. I would recommend not tampering with the pH. If the fish are showing signs of stress, consider a water change to reduce the concentration.

 

[tcarswell]

Thanks guys im going to go with potts advice he seems to know what he's talking about much more than me.

 

[CHOMPERS]

Far be it from me to dispute any advice from Chompers...

I'm always honored to have you pick up the ball after I drop it

 

[Potts050]

Thas wasn't a dropped ball, I just saw an opportunity to kick it a little farther up the field...