Melanura/Synspilum Log

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FishKing5

Aimara
MFK Member
Oct 24, 2013
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United States
I would like to start a thread on all the different types of vieja melanura and synspilum that I'm currently keeping. I would like to share with all of you the the catch region they are from, the behavioral differences, their appearances, breeding behaviors, etc...

All the fish I have are around the 4 inch range as of now but are growing fast so I don't see it being too far along they pairs start forming. The fish I have are as follows :

1. Group of vieja melanura lago peten from rapps.
2. Two red head synspilum from rapps, unsure of what region they originally are from.
3. Two other synspilum red heads from Imperial Tropicals but are much different looking then rapps red heads. I find these to end up having more of the yellow/orange on the body that'll eventually develop a red head but only time will tell.
4. Four F1 vieja melanura Rio sarstun from Don Conkel. He has them labeled as synspilum but I would consider them more the melanura type. Getting shipped to me next Tuesday.

Before everyone starts saying that synspilum and melanura are the same fish, I would like to state that I've done hours upon hours of research on the differences of melanura and synspilum and have learned, especially from my own experience, that they are quite different from each other starting from body shape, temperament, and coloring. I refer synspilum as your typical red head vieja with more blue throughout the body and melanura as more or your yellowish and orange color throughout the body that typically have the black belly.

The Lago peten melanura I have are very rich in orange and blue and have longer more slender bodies then the red head synspilum.


I will post pictures of each type of fish in this order :
1. Vieja melanura lago peten
2. Red head synspilum (Jeff rapps)
3. "Red Head" Synspilum from Imperial Tropicals but we will see in the next few months how they're color turns out. Reminds me more of the Rio De Chiapas melanura.
4. Vieja Melanura Rio Sarstun F1. Pics coming next week.

Please feel free to share pictures of your melanura and synspilum and which catch location /region they're from and share your experiences with them and differences you have seen compared to other melanura and synspilum.

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That fish picture is awesome. Stunning fish.
 
I am liking the lago peten already. Should be interesting to see how they all turn out and if there is any difference in behaviour from different catch locations of the same species. Would of loved to try this with bifasciatus as there is just as much variation between catch locations.
 
I am liking the lago peten already. Should be interesting to see how they all turn out and if there is any difference in behaviour from different catch locations of the same species. Would of loved to try this with bifasciatus as there is just as much variation between catch locations.
Never too late to try ;) the Lago peten seem much more high tempered compared to the typical red head synspilum
 
Never too late to try ;) the Lago peten seem much more high tempered compared to the typical red head synspilum
I am from the UK, the land of small houses with no basements. Haven't the room to try.
 
Just thought I'd share this as well after speaking with Jeff Rapps on the topic of the differences in melanura /synspilum from different regions. Some might find this pretty helpful.


A couple years ago ichthyologists determined through DNA analysis that synspila is indistinguishable from melanura at the molecular level.
Since melanura was chronologically described earlier (1862) than synspila (1935), nomenclature rules dictate that the historically earliest named fish takes precedence.
So then synspila was synonymous with melanura and melanura species name continues to be recognized in literature, while synspila is dropped.

I am long time friends with the scientist at the lead of this study and have expressed my opinion on this subject, but as we both agree, DNA doesn't lie.
For those of us that have collected, bred, and maintained both forms over the years, there is a more or less different appearance recognized between the two fish.
It becomes difficult to distinguish the two in populations to the north and east of their range though.

So I have continued to refer to the red headed fish we all recognize as synspila by specifically calling them Vieja melanura variety 'synspila', or V. melanura var. synspila.
This allows me to indicate which variety of this species I am referring to.

I hope this clears up some of your questions regarding these species.

I don't want to confuse the issue, but you may also have questioned the genus name associated with these species.
That has been updated several times over the past 20 or so years.
They were Cichlasoma, Theraps, Vieja, Paratheraps, and back to Vieja.
If you see reference to the them under any above genus name, it's really just representative of the popular accepted genus name at the time that literature or photos were presented.
 
Just thought I'd share this as well after speaking with Jeff Rapps on the topic of the differences in melanura /synspilum from different regions. Some might find this pretty helpful.


A couple years ago ichthyologists determined through DNA analysis that synspila is indistinguishable from melanura at the molecular level.
Since melanura was chronologically described earlier (1862) than synspila (1935), nomenclature rules dictate that the historically earliest named fish takes precedence.
So then synspila was synonymous with melanura and melanura species name continues to be recognized in literature, while synspila is dropped.

I am long time friends with the scientist at the lead of this study and have expressed my opinion on this subject, but as we both agree, DNA doesn't lie.
For those of us that have collected, bred, and maintained both forms over the years, there is a more or less different appearance recognized between the two fish.
It becomes difficult to distinguish the two in populations to the north and east of their range though.

So I have continued to refer to the red headed fish we all recognize as synspila by specifically calling them Vieja melanura variety 'synspila', or V. melanura var. synspila.
This allows me to indicate which variety of this species I am referring to.

I hope this clears up some of your questions regarding these species.

I don't want to confuse the issue, but you may also have questioned the genus name associated with these species.
That has been updated several times over the past 20 or so years.
They were Cichlasoma, Theraps, Vieja, Paratheraps, and back to Vieja.
If you see reference to the them under any above genus name, it's really just representative of the popular accepted genus name at the time that literature or photos were presented.
Not all fish are speciated by DNA. Many Victorian cichlids have identicle DNA, yet classified as different species based on obviously different color and markings. Mellanurum and synspillum have greater differences in color pattern and body shape than some Victorian species, or Frontosa and Gibberosa, yet they are now one species based on DNA alone. Taxonomy in fish is not an exact science.

There is one more variant of Mellanurum you may want to collect. I forgot the collection location. This one has sparkings on the body like JD.
 
Not all fish are speciated by DNA. Many Victorian cichlids have identicle DNA, yet classified as different species based on obviously different color and markings. Mellanurum and synspillum have greater differences in color pattern and body shape than some Victorian species, or Frontosa and Gibberosa, yet they are now one species based on DNA alone. Taxonomy in fish is not an exact science.

There is one more variant of Mellanurum you may want to collect. I forgot the collection location. This one has sparkings on the body like JD.
I wonder if those are the blue spotted belize synspilum you're referring to.
 
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