So I posted on here a few days ago about starting up my 150 gallon tank with sump, I've never had a sump before and am not very familiar with them. We got every thing finally hooked up and running and now we have another dilemma, the pump is sucking the water out of the sump faster than it can be returned. The return pipes are 1 and 1/2 inch going from tank to sump. The pipes going from sump to tank are 3/4 inch. The return pipes are much bigger....what is going on? My brother put a t-connector running from one of the lines going back into the tank and ran it directly into the sump for extra water in there. Its working but now just seems like all the water is dumping back into the sump instead of the tank.....What do I do now?? I have to get this tank up and running.
MORE sump issues!
- Thread starter spainter85
- Start date
What exact pump are you running? How many 1.5" drains are there? Sounds like a little to many gph for the setup.
Maybe a ball valve on the pump return line to slow it down a little.
Maybe a ball valve on the pump return line to slow it down a little.
There are two 1.5 inch drains. The pump came with the tank and setup so im assuming it was running at one point, im unsure on the gph, I vaguely remember the previously owner saying 500 but could def be wrong. I was using ball valves on the return lines but then read that that causes a lot of wear and tear on the pump and shouldn't be done? That seemed to work ok, but then again the water going back into the tank was minimal.
How about a picture of the pump to help identify it. Some pumps can have a ball valve on them and it will not mess with the pump at all. Either use a valve to slow it down some or switch to a pump putting out less gph that is better suited for 2 drains at 1.5".
Centrifugal pumps can always be throttled back on the return to tank end without a problem. You just don't want to choke the lines to the sump.
But if the pump is only 500gph, it's not too powerful for 1.5" drains
But if the pump is only 500gph, it's not too powerful for 1.5" drains
one 1.5 drain can drain a max of 840 gph. You might have to shorten the actual 1.5 in the overflow. thats what i had to do. If you wana see what im talking about you can see the pictures. Ill explain why it works.
so the second picture has the shorter pipe and this makes water flow faster through due to gravity. If you shorten this pipe im sure it will increase your return gph but dont cut it so short that the U tube isnt submerged. Do it so its about 1/2 inch to 1 inch still under water. Do several cuts to make sure you dont over cut.
edit""
A point to note for why this works is that the water creates more pressure being that there is more pushing down. Gravity feeds the water faster.
so the second picture has the shorter pipe and this makes water flow faster through due to gravity. If you shorten this pipe im sure it will increase your return gph but dont cut it so short that the U tube isnt submerged. Do it so its about 1/2 inch to 1 inch still under water. Do several cuts to make sure you dont over cut.
edit""
A point to note for why this works is that the water creates more pressure being that there is more pushing down. Gravity feeds the water faster.
The pump is completely under water and attached to pvc pipe, there's no way to take a picture. Also the over flow box is attached to the tank, its a drilled tank, I don't think there's a way to cut or change anything there? If you guys don't think reducing the water coming from the pump will wear it down I can do that, it was working I was just worried when I started reading posts that that's not good. Thanks for the help!
What worked well for me when I was trying to solve this problem was similar to what you are doing now, but I normally install some sort of T (PVC or hose fitting) with the straight side of the T going from pump to tank, the take off side of the T heads back to the sump. Then between the T and the tank install a gate valve. As you close the gate valve more water will run out the side of the T back to sump and won't have any effect on pump drag. This is about the only time I use gate valves, ball valves just don't seem to have the finite adjustability as a gate valve. You can also install a gate valve on sump side of the T but it sounds like you have a wide open flow now and still is not enough. Hope that makes some sense. Good luck.
Oh wow ok disregard my previous post. So if its drilled then there is something wrong that you can fix for sure. I know the frustration of being so close to using equipment that just doesnt seem to want to work. So stick with me here haha.
How is the water coming down from the drilled tank to the sump? Is it pvc or is it flexible tube?
Each 1.5 can drain 840 gph so it puts your total at around 1680gph.
I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say that your pluming is pvc. The thing to note is that each 90 degree elbow reduces the flow around 5-15%. Im guessing there is two or three bends in each overflow correct?
That would mean a max reduction of 252 gph as 15%*2=30% leading to 840*.30=252.
I'm just guessing about your set up but if I'm right that would mean 252*2=504 because you have two drains. So 1680-504=1176gph.
Removing these bends will increase your gph and you wont have to shell out 150 for another pump. If you cant hold the pump in your hand would make me guess that its around 1600gph. Yet you can still safely run the pump as you lose gph to head loss.
The formula is hp of the pump (flow in gpm * head in feet)/3960
So depending on your head which i guess is around 5 it will bring your pump down to around 1250-1450 but theres a whole other formula for using pvc and which dimension pvc you are using.
So enough of me going on about nonsense that might not be relevant. Can you supply me with some answers?
How is the water going from the tank to the sump?
// pvc? fexible tube?
// If it is pvc how many bends?
Can the pump fit in your hand?
Pumps that can fit in your hand are generally under 1000 gph. If it cant then its roughly 1000 gph +
How high is the tank?
// As in from the base of the sump to the outlet of the tank?
As a quick trial, you can stick some airline tubing in the drain (maybe one or two). The pull of air will allow the vacuum to break yeilding a stronger vacuum created. This is usually done to silence a loud overflow but it might be worth a shot.
How is the water coming down from the drilled tank to the sump? Is it pvc or is it flexible tube?
Each 1.5 can drain 840 gph so it puts your total at around 1680gph.
I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say that your pluming is pvc. The thing to note is that each 90 degree elbow reduces the flow around 5-15%. Im guessing there is two or three bends in each overflow correct?
That would mean a max reduction of 252 gph as 15%*2=30% leading to 840*.30=252.
I'm just guessing about your set up but if I'm right that would mean 252*2=504 because you have two drains. So 1680-504=1176gph.
Removing these bends will increase your gph and you wont have to shell out 150 for another pump. If you cant hold the pump in your hand would make me guess that its around 1600gph. Yet you can still safely run the pump as you lose gph to head loss.
The formula is hp of the pump (flow in gpm * head in feet)/3960
So depending on your head which i guess is around 5 it will bring your pump down to around 1250-1450 but theres a whole other formula for using pvc and which dimension pvc you are using.
So enough of me going on about nonsense that might not be relevant. Can you supply me with some answers?
How is the water going from the tank to the sump?
// pvc? fexible tube?
// If it is pvc how many bends?
Can the pump fit in your hand?
Pumps that can fit in your hand are generally under 1000 gph. If it cant then its roughly 1000 gph +
How high is the tank?
// As in from the base of the sump to the outlet of the tank?
As a quick trial, you can stick some airline tubing in the drain (maybe one or two). The pull of air will allow the vacuum to break yeilding a stronger vacuum created. This is usually done to silence a loud overflow but it might be worth a shot.
This.....
Although, I am an advocate of gating a drain line to silence the drain and accelerate flow, creating a "full siphon."
Throttling back your pump output(s) with a ball or gate valve is the quickest way to fix this particular problem. Balls are cheaper, usually smaller, but give less control than gates.
Pics of the sump could help us see if there might be an area of the sump creating unnecessary restrictions.
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