My fish hyperventilate at night

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DaveB

Fire Eel
MFK Member
Feb 22, 2008
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Miami
For the past week I have noticed my fish acting very stressed and hyperventilating in the evenings. They're fine every morning and it only seems to happen at night.

I have a few theories but none make total sense:

1) I killed my bacteria and am getting an ammonia spike.
(I cleaned my filter out 2 weeks ago. To guard against this concern I swapped media with two other canisters though, so that ought to cover me. I'd add another filter, but the tank is acrylic and can't take a HOB. Plus my extra HOB definitely has dead BB, as it died while I was gone last weekend and sat idle for at least 2 days.)

Why this doesn't make sense: I'm not getting any ammonia readings. Also, I swapped the media. Just to be safe though, I have done daily water changes since this started happening.

2) Aeration is poor
I keep the tank at 83 plus the lights probably heat the surface some, so it makes sense that it'd need more aeration.

Why this doesn't make sense: Aeration is the same as it has always been. Surface distortion and an air stone have always been adequate for this tank and temp.

3) The fish hate Flourish Excel
I have been adding a double dose of Excel lately to deal with some black beard algae since I don't have my pressurized CO2 working (so far this seems to be working, which is good).

Why this doesn't make sense: actually it makes the most sense. The reasons I'm not totally sold on this are that it doesn't happen for several hours after the dosing, I've heard of others using megadoses of this several times before, and I haven't read of any issues with this either on plant forums or any indication at all on the label. Possibly irrelevant, but the pH has remained constant.

What I don't get is why this is only happening at night. That just doesn't make sense.

4) I reduced the amount of salt in the tank
For years I have added aquarium salt with water changes but lately I have tapered that off.

Why this doesn't make sense: I've halted salt in other tanks before without this issue

5) Temperature fluctuations

Why this doesn't make sense: The temperature is constant, except for whatever effect the CF lights have at the surface.



They're all breathing really hard right now, and I have done 50-60% WC 5 days in a row. I'm about to do another even though it's 2:45am. The clear solution is to stop the Excel treatment, but I figured I'd toss this out here too to see if anyone had any ideas, just in case.
 
They "party" too hard when the lights go out! :D
 
Knowdafish;2874965; said:
They "party" too hard when the lights go out! :D

Ha, if only that was the case. I usually start to notice it around 7, after the burst of extra light ends. What spooked me was that I was about to go to bed and the lights have been out since 11 and they're all going way more than any other night.

At this point I'm nearly positive it's just a week's worth of excel buildup. I am probably not planted heavily enough to use it all up, so even with the daily extra light burst and the water changes, there's probably a pretty good amount in there. On the plus side, the BBA has really loosened up and the molly and plecos are happily eating it after ignoring it before. So if this is the solution I've accomplished my goal without any actual damage (knock wood).

The only problem is that it takes forever to do a 50% WC on this tank. I need a nice 1.5" tube to drain it instead of making it go through 50 feet of regular python tubing.
 
Got live plants?During the day plants do give off oxygen,however at night the plants consume oxygen
what fish are you keeping because at 83F is kind of high and doesn't hold much dissolved oxygen.
3.3 parts of oxygen per 1000 by volume is common in aqauria kept at 75 F
in the lower to mid 80's the dissolved oxygen drops to 2.50 parts per 1000 by volume.-Anne
 
This tank has geophagus and laetacara. They like it warm.

It was moderately planted but I pruned a ton because of the algae so now I'd say it's lightly planted. This happens before the lights go out though.

It's got to be the Excel. If it was the bacteria I'd have ammonia readings, and that's the only other change.
 
I second the idea of excel. I did an overdose at lights out and woke up to my prized fish dead in the morning. I suspect it was oxygen deprivation for lack of any other sensible explanation.
 
I haven't added any more excel but they're still doing it. Fine this morning, rapid breathing developed a while after feeding in the afternoon, still going now. The light is still on. Aeration is upped and there's plenty of water circulation.

I tested ammonia again and it's hard for me to tell if it's perfect yellow (0) or light green (.25). Even if it's green, .25 isn't that bad. Maybe I killed some BB and what's left just can't quite keep up with the ammonia after feeding/pooping as quickly? I replaced probably 2/3 of the media in the filter after the possible BB killing (with media from other filters that were cycled - that tank is way overfiltered so the loss of some of the bacteria was no big deal). Does that make any sense?

They're all breathing super fast right now and I worry that I'm harming them if I don't change the water. But I'm also pretty confident that I could ignore it and tomorrow when I wake up they'd be fine.

I'm confused.

Are any of those 24-hr cycle products safe for use when fish are in the tank? (Do they even work anyway?) Cause I'd love to be able to rule out ammonia 100%.
 
Hi.

While it is true that an Algae bloom can cause fish gasping overnight, I don't think it was the cause of your trouble. That sort of gasping is worst just before the sun comes up. If they were already struggling at 7:00p.m. with some light left.. that probably wasn't it. The would be dead by morning.

I have a hypothesis.

I think your biofilter compensated for the decomposing Algae and converted the ammonia into nitrite, but the second slower growing bacteria (Nitrobacter) in the filter that convert nitrite into nitrate weren't able to keep up, possibly because of the medication. Pruning the plants removed it as an alternate biofilter, and made it worse.

Do you normally test your Nitrites? If I'm right they are going to be pretty high. Nitrites make it harder for a fish's gills to take up oxygen from the water. If that turns out to be the cause, then salting the water helps counteract the effects of nitrite and you can water-change or chemical-filter until your biofilter catches up.

Good Luck,
ellie
 
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