My O is officially daft...

[FINWIN]

This is a story, so grab a cup of coffee. My never ending search for a cichlid "truce" continues. The non stop squabbling between my Parrot Boss and not-so-baby Oscar Brick is getting on my last nerve. One minute nobody backs down then the next one or the other backs down. I don't know who's dominant but it's clear Brick wants to run the tank as he grows... Boss is like **** that. I knew the dynamic would change once he got to a certain size. Boss kept him in check until Brick hit 5 inches (same length as Boss). Now 6", Brick's acting wild and spazzy, going in Boss' 'territory' to annoy him or start a fight. Boss in turn repays the favor. They push, shove and bang. One will chase the other until they hit the 'invisible territory line' then it reverses. I moved stuff around several times and came up with a reasonable compromise, a shaded off area and wall of plants. It worked until Brick decided they couldn't eat in the same area. They would fight because Brick would gulp most of the food even stealing pellets off the parrot's mouth. Boss would smack him in the side. Brick would chase Boss off not letting him get much.Boss would circle around in the plants and shove his way to food. More scuffling resulting in Boss getting chased off. So I started feeding Boss in his own area (he still came to Brick's area to eat). I feed the O first. It don't matter a lick. He races across the tank to steal more food from Boss, starting WW3. My O is lovable, sweet, stubborn and curious. Also a pig.

Though Brick is the instigator and outgrowing the parrot, Boss overpowers him head to head. Brick doesn't win the physical battle but he might be winning the mental one. Or not. The minute I think Brick is taking over Boss fights back and shoves the oscar down in the sand. Amazingly no injuries from all this except two scrapes on the oscar (klutz).

Then something funny happened. I put in a silk plant with bold green leaves and red 'veins' as a divider. Brick spooked. He lay sideways in the water and just floated. When he got near the plant he stopped swimming, curled his tail and drifted back. Boss was unaffected by the plant.

Brick finally took the long way around the plant to go 'visit' Boss but he was so out of sorts there was no fighting. He lay against the parrot before hiding in his pot! Boss tried nudging him out but nope. So he rested next to his pot while doofus hid inside. I turned on the moon light, turned off the lights and called it a day for the fishroom. BTW, Boss roams the tank no problem at night and Brick nowhere to be seen...wtf?

I should mention Boss is also growing though obviously much slower than the O. It's been musical tanks trying to get a combo that works. This combo had the most chance of success but its going south. I plan to get maybe a severum, firemouth or T-Bar. Schooling fish are a challenge because of size (and Brick's mouth). But there needs to be something to break their attention on each other. Suggestions are welcome.

The other parrots are a no go to return to the main tank. Kong would own the young O, and Patch is even worse with breeding aggression and teeth.

My first go round with cichlids is turning into screwball city.

 

[Matteus]

Haha sounds like you have a great match. First off you can’t name a parrot boss and expect an Oscar to fall in line. Oscars don’t care about what you think, they are a sassy breed indeed. Also parrots think they own the world and will go lip to lip with anything, sometimes to their own demise.

I had a pair of parrots (when I was a kid) that lived in a SA predator tank I had and when the parrots started to lay eggs they got very defensive about their territory. Up to this point the 6” red belly piranha had kept to itself and I had no casualties. Until the parrots tried to take it on and found out the hard way not to attack a piranhas face. She lost half of hers this way.

I just recently rehomed a 10” Oscar, who was so lonely after his buddy an 18” pacu was rehomed because of tank size requirements. The Oscar would fight with the pacu even though it was roughly half the size. The pacu would push him around and typically not injure the Oscar unless he really pissed him off. The pacu had the power to destroy the Oscar but chose not to because they were buddies. When the pacu left, the Oscar became depressed and would sulk for days and for enjoyment would swim in circles going completely upside down, over and over for some sort of stimulation. I decided it would be a good idea to let my friend take this Oscar.


And since then he has been with a pack of 3 parrots and a nice big frontosa to fight with. 2 of the parrots are paired up so they are fairly territorial and not willing to share their space. So the Oscar thinks it is fun to stand his ground and ends up going face to face with the parrot on a very regular basis. He even shows off for me when I visit lol. He is so happy where he is right now even though an untrained eye would see it as a fight to the death, keep in mind an oscars teeth are back in its throat so most mouth on mouth contact is not extremely harmful. We also know that the parrots don’t have much up front either to do much damage.

If they are not bashing each other into sharp rocks and provided they have enough room to get away from each other if need be, it may not be a huge issue. Just my thoughts, not an expert by any means.

Are either of the fish stressed to the point where they are physically strained, lethargic, or not eating?

Also what size of tank are they in, I would say a 120 would be bare minimum for an Oscar that size. They are typically fairly active, smart fish that need stimulation (such as the territorial disputes) to keep them happy and healthy. Also they are extremely messy so they create an extremely high amount of waste which will alienate all the fish in your tank. This can be managed to a certain point with lots of water changes, say 2-3 a week if the tank is smaller.

If you have a big enough tank, you could possibly add some dither fish. I had tinfoil barbs (the small ones that grow 6-7”) because they are super hardy and quick they can either escape the Oscar or take the beating. Also they clean up all the food the Oscar spits out and doesn’t bother eating again.

To me it sounds like it’s just a fun tank to watch, I am open to corrections though.

 

[FINWIN]

Haha sounds like you have a great match. First off you can’t name a parrot boss and expect an Oscar to fall in line. Oscars don’t care about what you think, they are a sassy breed indeed. Also parrots think they own the world and will go lip to lip with anything, sometimes to their own demise.

I had a pair of parrots (when I was a kid) that lived in a SA predator tank I had and when the parrots started to lay eggs they got very defensive about their territory. Up to this point the 6” red belly piranha had kept to itself and I had no casualties. Until the parrots tried to take it on and found out the hard way not to attack a piranhas face. She lost half of hers this way.

I just recently rehomed a 10” Oscar, who was so lonely after his buddy an 18” pacu was rehomed because of tank size requirements. The Oscar would fight with the pacu even though it was roughly half the size. The pacu would push him around and typically not injure the Oscar unless he really pissed him off. The pacu had the power to destroy the Oscar but chose not to because they were buddies. When the pacu left, the Oscar became depressed and would sulk for days and for enjoyment would swim in circles going completely upside down, over and over for some sort of stimulation. I decided it would be a good idea to let my friend take this Oscar.


And since then he has been with a pack of 3 parrots and a nice big frontosa to fight with. 2 of the parrots are paired up so they are fairly territorial and not willing to share their space. So the Oscar thinks it is fun to stand his ground and ends up going face to face with the parrot on a very regular basis. He even shows off for me when I visit lol. He is so happy where he is right now even though an untrained eye would see it as a fight to the death, keep in mind an oscars teeth are back in its throat so most mouth on mouth contact is not extremely harmful. We also know that the parrots don’t have much up front either to do much damage.

If they are not bashing each other into sharp rocks and provided they have enough room to get away from each other if need be, it may not be a huge issue. Just my thoughts, not an expert by any means.

Are either of the fish stressed to the point where they are physically strained, lethargic, or not eating?

Also what size of tank are they in, I would say a 120 would be bare minimum for an Oscar that size. They are typically fairly active, smart fish that need stimulation (such as the territorial disputes) to keep them happy and healthy. Also they are extremely messy so they create an extremely high amount of waste which will alienate all the fish in your tank. This can be managed to a certain point with lots of water changes, say 2-3 a week if the tank is smaller.

If you have a big enough tank, you could possibly add some dither fish. I had tinfoil barbs (the small ones that grow 6-7”) because they are super hardy and quick they can either escape the Oscar or take the beating. Also they clean up all the food the Oscar spits out and doesn’t bother eating again.

To me it sounds like it’s just a fun tank to watch, I am open to corrections though.

LOL it's entertaining all right...like headless chickens!

So of course this morning they're swimming together no problem. Breakfast is coming up so all bets are off.

Tank size is 225. If that's not big enough for 'em as wrestler Razor Ramon would say, "Das too bah."

Thanks for the perspective. I was taking a 'watch and see' method with these guys mostly because no one is getting injured despite all the fighting. But the intelligence of these fish continues to impress me. For example the parrot and oscar tried to liplock several times but their mouths don't 'line up.' So Brick tries another tactic and decides to bite at Boss on the sides and belly. Boss just pushes and rams Brick backwards until he's sideways or 'spins out'. I see them 'eyeing' each other for easy places to hit. Everyone eats fine, no paleness or anything. Despite Boss getting hassled about food he's hardly starving...my smallest parrot is baseball size.

Body build is a factor. Boss is too round and thick to 'bite' in the body and he's good at turning / tilting making himself a hard target. Brick does the same, leaning away and lying down when Boss charges.

So off to breakfast...let the games continue...

 

[Gourami Swami]

You are learning the complexities of American cichlid communities. Best way to learn is through experience!
I think your idea of adding a few more fish, like possibly a severum, is a good one. Two cichlids in a tank never works out long-term in my experience unless they are a bonded pair. One always will become dominant, and with only one other fish to impose it's dominance on, the subdominant fish gets exhausted from the constant bullying.
I would just stick with fish which are in the same class aggression-wise as your parrot and severum. Perhaps a chocolate cichlid, or true parrot hoplarchus psittacus, would be a good addition. Even some non-cichlid tankmates like pinktail chalceus or flagtail prochilodus, should help. Your tank size of 225, is appropriate for these fish, and I think they would likely be a good mix. (though of course, as you are learning, it is always a balancing act with americans).

 

[Galantspeedz]

NPNT

 

[FINWIN]

Thanks for the input everyone. Looks like more fish are in the future.

The world's shortest experiment just took place. Have conclusive proof none of my parrots will ever work long term with the O. Thought I'd try putting Kong (my biggest male parrot) back in the big tank since he hadn't been in for weeks. Brick is much larger than when I took him out. Thought it might make a difference. Disaster. Instead of the two parrots 'spreading' aggression the only thing getting spread was Boss, who swam for his life...Kong went after him like they'd never been separated. Got Boss out of there quick and put him in Kong's tank...next, Kong (he holds his fins up like a shark, 1000 percent attitude) went right to Boss' pot, checked it out and then straight line crashed into Brick. My poor O was completely overmatched...he tried fighting Kong but got slammed into the glass and banged around. Kong's aggression level would do a red devil proud. So he came out asap...I netted him while putting Boss back in and Brick tried to bite him through the net (payback?) I have no doubt Brick would have sustained injuries...Kong knocked him above the water line briefly.

So people who say fish have short memory have NO IDEA what they're talking about. Kong went to taking over the tank he was in before like he never left, including a pot that was in the same area when he was removed. He circled everything at high speed and figured it out in seconds.

So I'm out to get another fish or two asap.

 

[Matteus]

Neat. Sounds like they have tons of room to spar. Great suggestions by Gourami Swami I really want ptc they are sweet. The only thing about all that is keeping in mind growth rate and original sizes. If you are able to find a bigger size of the fish in those suggestions would be more of the challenge. Hopefully there is a place that can get those guys at a good size already. I know where I am they are extremely rare and hard to find at a decent size. And my current flagtail is growing painfully slow.

 

[FINWIN]

The weirdest part is 70 percent of the time they're ok. One day the O is dominant, another the parrot. Don't like the idea of having to quarantine new fish (more waiting). I was looking around at the severums but they're all too small...maybe someone in the md / dc area on the forums has some healthy fish that might work? There's a family owned pet store in my area I'll try...they specialize in large and exotic species (and loopy oscars and ah*** parrots.) Will give it a go this weekend.

 

[FINWIN]

Funny follow up...Kong decided to destroy his tank tonight. Every plant is uprooted or moved. The pothos is balled up in the corner and the spider plant is pulled upside down in the middle of the tank and spread out. Tantrum for being removed from the big tank. He'd never done this before today, lol.

 

[Matteus]

Let’s see some pics of these guys.