native fish

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Rockbass6;1386375; said:
Guppy I guess you don't understand where I'm coming from. Our state record bluegill is 2 1/2 pounds that is the biggest EVER caught in the history of my state so I am NOT way off base... For you telling me to stop fish keeping for keeping a little bluegill in a 20 gal is really uncalled for. I would LOVE to see the day our bluegill reach the size of a legal size smallmouth!! More people would fish for them if they did, but they dont. So people around here fish for steelhead instead.
Ban me or whatever but you know Im right.
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That's what people don't get. I'm not arguing with you or attacking you. A lot of people make this mistake. "Oh, the fish from this pond only get this size". That's just not the case. Fish only get "stunted" or don't reach full size for a reason, not because it's in their genes. If you take a "stunted" bluegill from a farm pond with a population too large to support larger bluegill, and put it in a controlled environment, again, with proper feeding and water quality, it WILL reach the max size for the species, about 16". It may take a while, but they will get there. Just because a bluegill hasn't been caught in your state at that size, that doesn't mean they don't exist, and doesn't mean they won't reach that size in an aquarium. Our concern here is for the fish, and if you decide to take it offensively, then so be it. I'm not trying to offend or attack you.

I'm sorry if I seem to be "taking" your thread, flower1982. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. If you want to use your 20H, smaller Enneacanthus sunfish would be your best bet. Bantam sunfish are another great choice for a tank of that size. Bantams are a little aggressive, so your best bet would be to put quite a few of them in there, to help spread the aggression between several fish, instead of just one.
 
fishlvr, Don't be sorry your not taking my thread. Like I told Rockbass6 I'm learning a lot and I appreciate your advice. What do you feed native fish? Would they take pellets/flakes or would they need live food? Still trying to find a place to get any native fish and like i said I probably won't be getting any native fish for a while. I still have my 2 fancy goldfish in the 20 gallon.
I'm just doing some research on keeping native fish first. I do like the pygmy sunfish though. Would minnows and pygmy sunfish get along? Native fish are coldwater fish right? Thanks for answering my questions. I really appreciate it.
 
Sunfish convert to pellets pretty quick, and most minnows take flake within hours of being captured.

By pygmy sunfish do you mean the Ellassoma species or the Enneacanthus species? Some people call the dwarf(Enneacanthus species) pygmy sunfish, which is the common name for the Ellassoma species. Pygmy sunfish(Ellassoma) do best on their own. They get along with their own species and even other species in the same genus, but they're mellow feeders that need live food. They won't eat anything that doesn't move. If you decide to get them, the tank they're in needs to be planted to the point to where you can't see them. Like I said, your best candidates for a 20 gallon are Enneacanthus species and bantam sunfish. You may also want to look into some of the hardier minnows. Fathead minnows, bluntnose minnows, yellowfin shiners, bluehead chubs, redbelly dace, and several others are hardy minnows that you could start with. I can get you yellowfin shiners and bluehead chubs if you pay for shipping or trade for some fish. Some small catfish you could try are the madtoms(except stonecats), just to add some variety to the tank.

Yes, native fish are coldwater, but many of them can live in temps up in the high 70's. Many sunfish don't breed until the water reaches 75F. Stream dwelling species, however, don't do well in temps above 72F. It depends on what your looking for.
 
So if I decide to get pygmy sunfish I'd need to get them live food. What kind of live food? Would they eat earthworms, waxworms, mealworms or crickets?
Does it matter what kind of plants to have in the tank or would they be better off with native plants? Sorry for all the questions. I know it may seem dumb to ask all these questions if I don't plan on getting native fish in hte near future.
 
It's ok. Pygmy sunfish only get to 2", so you're going to need live blackworms, bloodworms, whiteworms, and glassworms, and maybe some daphnia to supplement.
 
for pygmy sunfish you could also feed them chopped up worms, pin head sized crickets, and fish fry, but just try to add some variety to their diet
 
Pin head crickets are too big. They need skinny foods. As far as chopped earthworms, you would have to use very small, young worms.
 
Fishlover I wasnt referring to a little pond I was referring to lake erie and according to you I guess 300 miles by 40 miles isnt big enough for a bluegill to reach its max growth. If bluegill dont get 10'' there why do I need to worry about them getting so big in a tank? Its never going to happen. Someone on here prove to me that they raised a 16'' bluegill in their tank. I'll be more than happy to go out and buy him a larger tank either that or I'll go tell my Jag she better look out because I guess according to you theres a new Sheriff in town.
 
I was using that as an example for a reason they get stunted. The size of the pond/lake/etc it's in has very little to do with the size. In Lake Erie they grow slower because of temperature, so they don't live long enough to grow to 16" because their growth rate is so slow. Unless your house gets as cold as Lake Erie during winter, then your bluegill will grow faster and still reach that max size. I wasn't arguing with you. I wasn't even talking directly towards you. A lot of people think that just because a fish doesn't get as big in a certain pond/lake/whatever it won't get as big in a controlled, healthier, warmer, captive environment. Even at 60F, or even colder, year round a bluegill will still reach 16" in captivity; it will just take a little longer. Maybe 4 or 5 years, but that's not that long considering they can live 15+ years in captivity. You would have to get your tank below 30F for a few months to inhibit their growth that much, or give them some really poor water quality.
 
Why dont you go with a bigger tank if you want natives? a 20 is simply a tiny tank for almost any native.
To answer the origional question, I got my bass and a sunfish from a nearby river as 3" babies. Had them in a 30 long which lasted less than a month before I had to thin the population and upgrade. The catfish I bought at an lfs.
 
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