Need advice on severum tank

[Mythic Figment]

So I have 4 juvenile turquoise severum living in a 55 gallon tank (see pic below for layout). They were relocated to this tank a few weeks ago and all my water parameters fall within their acceptable range (only issue might be my water hardness which tests around 160ppm, which is on the low end of the medium/mild hard range). They range in size from 3" to 4/4.5".

I noticed this week that they are quarreling a lot and one of them came away with some banged up fins and although they were not completely destroyed, the damage was enough for me to worry. They all seem to be arguing over one single plot of territory on one side of the tank. I have rearranged the decor multiple times and it has done nothing for them. There are lots of spaces to hide (at least at their current size) and they are often very shy and I don't seem them out too much except during feedings or when one is terrorizing another. I have thought about adding some dither fish to help calm them and hopefully reduce the amount of time they spend hiding. However, due to a recent car repair that drained my savings account, dithers will end up being a few weeks away at best. Most of my savings was put away for finding a 75-90 gallon tank to move 2 of them to when and if I ended up with a breeding pair (which is my goal). So now I am having to start from scratch on saving and a larger tank will likely be no less than 6 months away (possibly a year if I get a new job, which will force me to spend money on moving).

I have read that severums pair up around 4-5" at the earliest(can anyone confirm or deny that?), but I'm afraid that as they get bigger, some of them won't make it to breeding size or I won't end up with a pair before someone kills someone else. If I get a breeding pair, I believe I can successfully keep them in that 55 gallon tank for some time as I understand that their bodies allocate consumed resources from growth into reproduction and they grow more slowly, which will give me time to acquire a larger tank for a pair.

So my main question is how big can these 4 severum get before I will need to rehome them? Now I am asking this solely from a size standpoint. I understand that higher levels of aggression will force me to rehome them sooner if necessary.

Also, what is the likelihood that I could have a potential breeding pair out of the 4 I have? I know sexing them is very difficult at this size and their colors are just starting to come in, so I can't honestly tell the males from females right now.

I bought 5 of these turquoise from Jeff Rapps about 4 months ago, but one of them was just too weakened by the trip and it died shortly after I got it acclimated. If I can't get a breeding pair from this bunch, I think I will try my hand at notatus severums. A store 2 hours away from me carries them at the 2" size and I prefer to not ship fish where possible.

Any advice or suggestions are always appreciated. I am not new to cichlids, but I am relatively new to South American cichlids. Thanks!


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[Mythic Figment]

LOL Forgot to add the pic.


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[Drstrangelove]

I'd try adding a lot more plants, 2 -3 flat rocks or 6" clay flower pots to the tank. Aggression and stress is diminished when the fish have a complex environment and sight of competitors is not constant. The aggression could be over one spot because it's the only spot they deem worthy for resources like food and reproduction. More plants to separate the tank and 2-3 flat rocks/flower pots will give them lots more choices.

 

[ElectricBlueSeanBurch]

Severums can be nasty to each other. I have never had susuccess keeping more than 2 together even in my 220. That being said I was never trying for a pair. Aggression aside 4 6-7" fish would be fine in the 55 imo. However opinions will vary on here. Also as far as getting a pair my brother once bought 6 convicts to get a pair @1" and they ALL turned out to be males. I thought that was crazy. Hth
Josh

 

[Mythic Figment]

I'd try adding a lot more plants, 2 -3 flat rocks or 6" clay flower pots to the tank. Aggression and stress is diminished when the fish have a complex environment and sight of competitors is not constant. The aggression could be over one spot because it's the only spot they deem worthy for resources like food and reproduction. More plants to separate the tank and 2-3 flat rocks/flower pots will give them lots more choices.

Awesome advice. Thank you. Most of the plants in the tank are fake, but I have several more I can add to the tank. I will see about getting a couple more clay pots to add to the tank as well. As far as flat rock goes, I can't seem to find a good piece. All I can find locally are slabs of shale and when I drop vinegar on them, they fizz, so I can't add them to the tank. I have found slate online, but the cheapest I have found is $10 for a 3-4 square inch section. Not worth the price or shipping costs. Especially when I know they will spawn on clay pots.


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[Mythic Figment]

Severums can be nasty to each other. I have never had susuccess keeping more than 2 together even in my 220. That being said I was never trying for a pair. Aggression aside 4 6-7" fish would be fine in the 55 imo. However opinions will vary on here. Also as far as getting a pair my brother once bought 6 convicts to get a pair @1" and they ALL turned out to be males. I thought that was crazy. Hth
Josh

Yeah. I have heard those stories. I really hope I don't have all males or all females. That is worst case scenario. If I do end up with all of one gender, I will sell them and use the money I make to purchase 5-6 small notatus and hope for a pair there. I don't want to end up with too many breeding cichlids. I have a pair of blue rams in with 3 other rams and 2 keyhole cichlids, so with 2 more potential pairs, I need to be careful. If I do end up with more breeding pairs, I will sell one or both of the ram pairs and just get some more keyholes.

Even if I only had 1 male or female out of the whole lot, it would be worth something.


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[Mythic Figment]

Now with more plants!


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[SePPii]

I agree with the what they deem worthy comment. I have a breeding pair and they will only accept the left side of my tank as that is where I feed them.


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[neutrino]

I've kept severums for years in pH 7.6 or so and moderate hardness. In fact that includes a wild rotkeil I have that is now 12 years old, maybe a year or two older (got him as an adult 10 years ago). So you should be ok there, at least from my experience.

Probably not a standard, 100% reliable answer to your question and I'm not going to contradict what someone else says is their experience. For one thing, severums can vary quite a bit in temperament, so this can depend on your particular fish. But my experience is it's very possible to keep a group of them together. I've done this with anywhere from two to six adults and a bunch of juvies, in 4 and 6 ft. tanks. IMO it's possible you could have two pairing up, but not necessarily a breeding pair at this point. You could also just have two that feel compatible at this point, but which may just as well not like each other by the time they're actually ready to breed, which is probably yet in the future at their present size (assuming they've grown normally).

Possible adding more tank structure in the form of plants, wood, etc. will help, but also possible it won't make much difference and what they really need is a larger tank. Possible other fish will help, but not necessarily. Possible they'd actually better do in a larger group, at that size I've kept them in groups of 10 or more in a 75 gal tank, which worked pretty well until two pairs started to form at about 6 inches, which suddenly turned the 75 small. After that I traded some and put six of them in a 135 gal tank and problem solved.

These are just suggestions. Again, my point is since they can vary a lot in temperament and there are a lot of other variables, what works for you may be different from someone else's experience.

 

[Mythic Figment]

I'd try adding a lot more plants, 2 -3 flat rocks or 6" clay flower pots to the tank. Aggression and stress is diminished when the fish have a complex environment and sight of competitors is not constant. The aggression could be over one spot because it's the only spot they deem worthy for resources like food and reproduction. More plants to separate the tank and 2-3 flat rocks/flower pots will give them lots more choices.

Thank you very much for this advice! After I added more fake plants, I observed them a few hours later and found them dispersed throughout the tank. I intend to purchase yet more fake plants and a couple of clay pots to add to the tank to define territories even further. But for the time being, this was exactly what I needed.

Two of them seem to be hanging out with each other without aggressive behavior. I will be keeping an eye on this in hopes that they maybe be a potential pair, even though they have displayed none of the normal mating behaviors. Fingers crossed.

I also intend to do this with my ram tank as soon as I figure out why my live plants are not surviving. I started off using the fluorescent lighting that came with the kit and also doses the tank with Seachem Flourish tabs and comprehensive supplement liquid. My leaves were still turning yellow and brown. I added API Leaf Zone to the mix for the extra iron and potassium since someone suggested that the yellowing was due to iron deficiency. Still no change. Well I changed the 2 bulbs in the fixtures to 15 watt, 6500K, 700 lumen T8 bulbs and instantly noticed a difference in brightness. I think the factory bulbs that came in the kit were one of the lowest grade bulbs you could get. I am hoping this improvement will be what my plants need and I can then start adding even more live plants to the tank to create clearly defined territories for my keyholes and rams.


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