Yep, you exceeded my knowledge of overflows. If the emergency carries a constant flow of tank water I would want it filtered too!
need plumbing/sump suggestions on 92 gallon acrylic for overstocked cichlid setup
- Thread starter TimTheWiner
- Start date
It can be done either way. I don't see a problem with it being smaller. If your main is functioning it shouldn't flood at all. Like said previously the flow within a pipe under siphon is greater then in a gravity situation. (I think someone here covered that)
Also as mentioned before with those slits at the bottom of your weir you will continue to pull water to the height of your siphon pipe with pump off. So you could drain the tank if you are not careful. Moral of that story don't cut your siphon pipe to short. I think the added detritus removal it will add is worth it though. I don't usually advocate gluing the overflow pipes in but in your case once you've got the pipe length set I would.
Also as mentioned before with those slits at the bottom of your weir you will continue to pull water to the height of your siphon pipe with pump off. So you could drain the tank if you are not careful. Moral of that story don't cut your siphon pipe to short. I think the added detritus removal it will add is worth it though. I don't usually advocate gluing the overflow pipes in but in your case once you've got the pipe length set I would.
DN328
posted something awhile back showing there really wasnt a big difference betweeen 90' and 45'sI would want my e drain to be bigger than the main drain. Only because the pump gph/siphon lines should be sized to your e drain flow rate. If your main drains exceed what your e drains can hanlde you'd have a flood in the even the main drains clog
I was getting antsy last night and started on the bulkhead install and some plumbing. I used 3/4" for the E Drain 1/2" below the weir. Now questioning this decision. The way I'm kind of looking at it too is that with the main siphon drain closed as much as 50% by the gate valve then in essence wouldn't that be constricting the flow to be the same or less than a fully open 3/4" anyway? Other than throwing $15 in the garbage since I already glued it into that bulkhead it's mainly about reaming out that hole to accommodate a 1" bulkhead and possible clearance issues with the hole next to it.
On a separate issue I am now worried that my bio tower plan is foiled. Reading on gmacreef.com, it is stated that both drain outlets MUST be submerged in the sump by an inch. I'm not sure why this is 100% necessary and if anyone can clarify it's much appreciated. In this case I could not use the wet/dry setup first with water trickling over the bioballs before entering the secondary sump chambers. If this MUST be executed in this manner for proper operation then I would have to use a sump only with chambers of ceramic rings/porous media I guess then various filter pads. Frustrating.
Regarding the slits at the bottom of the tank; they appear to have there own fill chamber within the overflow area which is sealed at the bottom and meet the bottom of the teeth at the top (pic below). I can't imagine they would've designed it that way that the entire tank would drain from that point. Still not sure what the purpose is other than maybe to draw water from the bottom of the tank as well.
On a separate issue I am now worried that my bio tower plan is foiled. Reading on gmacreef.com, it is stated that both drain outlets MUST be submerged in the sump by an inch. I'm not sure why this is 100% necessary and if anyone can clarify it's much appreciated. In this case I could not use the wet/dry setup first with water trickling over the bioballs before entering the secondary sump chambers. If this MUST be executed in this manner for proper operation then I would have to use a sump only with chambers of ceramic rings/porous media I guess then various filter pads. Frustrating.
Regarding the slits at the bottom of the tank; they appear to have there own fill chamber within the overflow area which is sealed at the bottom and meet the bottom of the teeth at the top (pic below). I can't imagine they would've designed it that way that the entire tank would drain from that point. Still not sure what the purpose is other than maybe to draw water from the bottom of the tank as well.
Siphon drains utilizing a gate can flow much more water than a gravity fed drain. I would would consider usi g the larger of the drains for the emergency and make sure your pumps and siphon drains are set uo in a way where they do not exceed the flow of the e drain which they easily can
So how do I know if the pump exceeds the capacity of the emergency drain? Just raise the water level or close the gate valve on the main drain and see how it reacts? I'll likely be using a DC turn pump that I can throttle down. I was shooting for like 750 gph after head losses. The only option for a 1" emergency is if I utilize that center 3/4" that I just installed as the return which would then have to dump out the center to likely a T which could be as wide as 18". Originally it was a spray bar on the back right edge of the tank. If I did that, then there should be enough room next to the hole to the left of it to ream out to accommodate 1". Are there bits to widen the hole or would I recut around it? Any comments on the bioball tower? Do the outlets indeed need to be submerged?
You can run the return over the back of the tank amd use the 1 inch as e drains 3/4 for siphon.
These are rough estimates. You would be looking at the green column for siphon and the white column for gravity fed.
Notice a 1 inch gravity fed drain will handle 960 (again not exact remember) your 3/4 siphon can roughly handle 1400 gph. Your going to throttle that back with your gate and adjustable pump to match your edrain.
These are rough estimates. You would be looking at the green column for siphon and the white column for gravity fed.
Notice a 1 inch gravity fed drain will handle 960 (again not exact remember) your 3/4 siphon can roughly handle 1400 gph. Your going to throttle that back with your gate and adjustable pump to match your edrain.
Note that I have 3 holes to work with. Over the back for a return isn't much of an option as this tank will basically be right up against the wall (maybe 1/2" away max). Also the canopy rests directly on the top of the acrylic so Is have to make cut outs etc.
The chart does show good info though. So basically the way I had it setup the E drain gravity fed could only handle 660 gph and the 1" siphon would be as high as 2220 gph with a fully open gate. So I guess my best option at this point is to make that center 3/4" I installed the return and cut out the other 3/4" to accommodate a 1" bulkhead for the E drain. Just don't love the idea of the spraybar going across the tank diagonally.
Or last option I guess the 3/4" could be the siphon and the 1" could be the emergency.
The chart does show good info though. So basically the way I had it setup the E drain gravity fed could only handle 660 gph and the 1" siphon would be as high as 2220 gph with a fully open gate. So I guess my best option at this point is to make that center 3/4" I installed the return and cut out the other 3/4" to accommodate a 1" bulkhead for the E drain. Just don't love the idea of the spraybar going across the tank diagonally.
Or last option I guess the 3/4" could be the siphon and the 1" could be the emergency.
Your last option it was i would go with myself.
Also thats not with the gate fully open. The gate on my tank is hardly opened and its handling 1.5 siphons with two dct 12000s on setting 4 or 5.
With these setups the emergency drain NEEDS to be the limiting factor. If not then imo no point in putting 1 in. Say your siphon is running at 1400ish and your e drain can only handle 660. If your siphon gets clogged your edrains wont handle the flow and your tank will flood.
Some may say that the chances are slim of a siphon clogging and they may be right but if we use that thought process why bother with the e drain
This all makes sense, I'm just assuming that as long as the E drain gravity flow number number is more than the output of the pump, then that's more important than the correlation of flow ratings between the two drains. If the pump is outputing 750 gph, then the E drain must meet or exceed that number.
Another minor point of confusion for me is the DT flood scenario. Say that BOTH drains were 100% blocked. In that case then the only water filling the tank would be whatever volume is beyond the blockage/and in the lines and sump correct? Obviously the pump would them burn out or turn off if so equipped. Is this sound reasoning? So if the volume on the sump was 10 gallons then 10 gallons would be added to the main tank?
Another minor point of confusion for me is the DT flood scenario. Say that BOTH drains were 100% blocked. In that case then the only water filling the tank would be whatever volume is beyond the blockage/and in the lines and sump correct? Obviously the pump would them burn out or turn off if so equipped. Is this sound reasoning? So if the volume on the sump was 10 gallons then 10 gallons would be added to the main tank?
