Need some assistance with my design for a tank build.

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Joe S

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Jan 20, 2013
13
0
0
Minnesota
Hey there MFK! So here is a little backstory. I am not very new to keeping freshwater aquariums. Fish are a secondary stock item for me while turtles are a main focus. Last month a spotted turtle female of mine laid her first clutch of 5 eggs. This has inspired me to build a bog type pond for my spotted pair. However, the number of spotted turtles will double for this pond.
Here is the design for the pond:
NewPOndDesign1_zps60dbc038-1_zps45867c23.jpg

--Dimensions: 6' Long, 3' Wide, 1' Deep.
--Base will be constructed from 1'' thick plywood
--The walls will be constructed with 2''x12'' boards
--The divider wall between the water and land will be made from a 2''x8'' board
--The circles indicate 1.5'' overflows
--The two rectangles on the left side near the land and water break will be 1' ramps from the floor to the edge.
--The two thin rectangles on the right side will be the return spray bars.

I plan to wood glue the boards together and then use screws every 6 inches to secure the parts together. After the ramps have been installed I plan to use an expanding foam to fill in the gaps created by the ramps. Once that has set and secured I plan to paint the surface of the wood with a water tight paint like DryLok. Once all of that has been done I plan to lay in a 45 mil epdm pond liner (this leads me to a few questions). After the liner is layer in I plan to clamp it down with thin braces on the sides of the pond.

This is my Stand plan:
StandDesing1_zps045fd2d3-1_zps1a93ca74.jpg


--The stand will have the same dimensions as the pond with the exception of being 3' tall.
--The cover legs will be 6''x6'' beams.
--The remaining legs will be 4''x4'' beams placed at either 6'' or 12'' intervals.
--The legs will be attached to 2''x4'' planks.
--From those planks I plan to attach 2''x4'' as cross supports at the same intervals as the legs.

My questions:

1) Will I need braces for this pond? I know water is a powerful force, and at 3 feet wide would 8'' of water push too strongly at the walls of the pond?
--I made three types of brace designs on the pond design: One looks like < l >, a second has three cross beams one at each end and one in the middle, the third is plywood with cutouts for viewing/feeding/maintenance (my least favorite)
If I can get away with no braces or minimal braces I would prefer this.

2) Should I some how secure the pond liner to the interior of the pond? This is mainly for the ramps and the like. (I am inexperienced with how pond liner acts)

3) Should I make the cutouts for the returns and over flows before installing the pond liner? What is the procedure of installing the bulkheads for them? Will the bulk heads need to be sealed? If so how?

4) Am I a bit over cautious with the stand design build? Could I get away with fewer cross beams and/or legs?

5) Would pond liner be the best option for this build? Would an epoxy paint or another form of liquid sealing be a smarter option?

Thank you all for taking the time to read this and help me with this project. I had a feeling that this would be the correct place to come for help with such a build.
--Joe S
 
top braces won't be necessary with 2x12 walls and 8" water.

stand is way overbuilt. won't need so many braces or legs, and all 2x4 construction would be plenty sturdy.

Rubber coating or epoxy resin is probably a better option than a liner.

With such a shallow water area it'd be pretty inexpensive to add a viewing window. I would certainly want one if I were building from scratch.


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Thank you Houie for the reply. I have recently drawn up another stand idea. I will post that shortly, but that also is likely over built as well. Do you really think a rubber coating or epoxy would be a better option? I am more than willing to learn all I need to to make that happen. And perhaps a viewing window would be a cool addition to the tank. Thank you!
 
Overbuilt isn't a problem. Make it a solid piece of wood if you like, I'm just saying it isn't necessary. Check the DIY stand section, there are a few simple and sturdy 2x4 builds for much larger tanks than you are planning.

It may be a little more expensive to use an epoxy or rubber coating but yes I think you will be much happier with the final product. Liner will certainly work though if that's your preference.
 
I'm not a fan of using solid wood like you're suggesting as it expands and contracts more than plwood, especially construction grade lumber that is 1) some type of softwood and 2) isn't dried down to the same degree as furniture grade lumber.

One of the biggest complaints from turtle keepers using liner is that all of the folds collect uneaten food and waste. With the separate land and water areas and the ramps you're going to have a lot of folds. EDPM tape can seal them up but I'm not sure how well. From the way I understand your design I would tend to lean away from a liner.

Since you're in Minnesota I would at least price MDO plywood at your nearest Menards. It's an exterior grade of plywood and theirs is pretty good in quality for the price. The two faces of it are already resin impregnated so it is already water proof to some degree. I have a camping grill on top of a piece of it on an old 55 gallon tank stand in my backyard. I use it as a secondary grill once in a while. The MDO is spending its 5'th winter outdoors, including weeks at a time of rain and snow and is still intact. I previously had solid pine lumber under it and it was trashed after two winters.

It only comes in up to 3/4" but that's plenty for your design. You don't need 1". I assume Menards still carries it.
 
I'm not a fan of using solid wood like you're suggesting as it expands and contracts more than plwood, especially construction grade lumber that is 1) some type of softwood and 2) isn't dried down to the same degree as furniture grade lumber.

One of the biggest complaints from turtle keepers using liner is that all of the folds collect uneaten food and waste. With the separate land and water areas and the ramps you're going to have a lot of folds. EDPM tape can seal them up but I'm not sure how well. From the way I understand your design I would tend to lean away from a liner.

Since you're in Minnesota I would at least price MDO plywood at your nearest Menards. It's an exterior grade of plywood and theirs is pretty good in quality for the price. The two faces of it are already resin impregnated so it is already water proof to some degree. I have a camping grill on top of a piece of it on an old 55 gallon tank stand in my backyard. I use it as a secondary grill once in a while. The MDO is spending its 5'th winter outdoors, including weeks at a time of rain and snow and is still intact. I previously had solid pine lumber under it and it was trashed after two winters.

It only comes in up to 3/4" but that's plenty for your design. You don't need 1". I assume Menards still carries it.

Thank you for your input. I did check this out and it seems like a good choice for the plans. My local menards does carry the MDO plywood. Do you think the 3/4 thickness w
 
Sorry about that I miss clicked on my phone there. As I was saying

Do you think the 3/4 thickness would be strong enough for the walls of the pond with out using braces ?

Also I am going to agree with you as well on the use of a liner. I think it might cause too much harm than good with collecting debris and rotting food. I have done a little research and it seems the product Pond Armor might be what I am looking for for the water proofing of the project. Has anyone used this before?

Also what is the procedure for securing glass or acrylic to the pond armor? It's a liquid rubber compound. Is it just the normal silicone sealant ? Thanks again everyone!
 
Sorry about that I miss clicked on my phone there. As I was saying

Do you think the 3/4 thickness would be strong enough for the walls of the pond with out using braces ?

Also I am going to agree with you as well on the use of a liner. I think it might cause too much harm than good with collecting debris and rotting food. I have done a little research and it seems the product Pond Armor might be what I am looking for for the water proofing of the project. Has anyone used this before?

Also what is the procedure for securing glass or acrylic to the pond armor? It's a liquid rubber compound. Is it just the normal silicone sealant ? Thanks again everyone!

At less than 12" of water depth I don't think you'll have any issue. Add some fiberglass reinforcment to all interior seams for a bit of extra strength.

Pond Armor has been discussed a lot on this site but the one I'm thinking of is an epoxy resin, not a liquid rubber. If it's an epoxy then just attach glass with silicone. If it's a liquid rubber then there is a different strategy.
 
At less than 12" of water depth I don't think you'll have any issue. Add some fiberglass reinforcment to all interior seams for a bit of extra strength.

Pond Armor has been discussed a lot on this site but the one I'm thinking of is an epoxy resin, not a liquid rubber. If it's an epoxy then just attach glass with silicone. If it's a liquid rubber then there is a different strategy.

What epoxy resin are you thinking of? I am open to epoxy resins and fiber glassing the seams as well.

Is there a way to color the resin or can I do a base coat of paint to give the interior a color?
 
What epoxy resin are you thinking of? I am open to epoxy resins and fiber glassing the seams as well.

Is there a way to color the resin or can I do a base coat of paint to give the interior a color?

There are pigments that can be used with epoxy resin.

If I ever get around to doing another plywood build I wouldn't hesitate to use the following epoxies:

1) Max ACR - they sell both regular and an already thickened epoxy and seem to offer excellent customer service when it comes to specific advice on building plywood aquaria. Haven't dealt with them myself.

2) Aeromarine Products. Heard good things about the epoxy and also like that they sell a variety of thickeners. Again, haven't dealt with them.

3) USComposites. They're thin epoxy resin system has been used on MFK builds before. They also sell a corner fiberglass cloth that a few have used here. I haven't used their thin epoxy resin system but have dealt with the company and was happy with them. They also sell pigments, as I'm sure some of my other choices do as well.

4) West Systems. I have used their epoxy and dealt with the company. Expensive but I do like their product. I've applied other epoxies that were fine but I liked working with the West Systems just a bit better. USComposites sells West Systems. For a plywood tank build I'm not sure I'd pay the extra money for West Systems unless I could find it locally and avoid shipping.

I'm sure there are many others. Minnesota is a fishing paradise so I'd at least call around to a few boat shops.

I've also used epoxy paints like Sweetwater. I like them but they do have a strong odor and if you can't buy it locally there are hazardous material shipping charges due to the solvents.

I have never used or dealt with Pond Armor. There have been a fair amount of failed builds using it around the web but I'm not convinced it's due to the product itself.

One other comment. One concern I have with designs like yours is when you have a plywood divider that is epoxied on both sides and top. If you have a slight leak on either side you can get water penetration and not know until the panel is about ready to fall apart or something from the plywood somehow contaminates your water. Small chance but it could happen. If I were doing a build like yours I'd likely use something completely fish safe for the divider. Maybe a piece of glass or solid plastic of some sort. If it comes in wide enough planks and is safe even Trex type decking might work. I think I've seen it used in turtle tanks but I'm not sure.

With the outside panels water penetration will show up quickly as a slow leak on the outside. With a divider panel that water can get trapped in the plywood and be free to migrate throughout the panel. Even if it did leak through to the land side you might never know.
 
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