New 300g fail tank

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andy84

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Mar 3, 2009
17
0
0
USA
New tank setup. Finished the rock wall a week ago after about 1 week of stacking. The rock was rinsed and brushed outside with a garden hose prior to assembling and it was rained on for about a week straight before that. I tested the rock with vinegar to see if it was calcium rock and it didn't fizz up like crazy. I initially filled the tank with 280g of tap water from our area and de-chlorinator and let it cycle for a day and a half constantly doing water changes every couple of hours. (Overflows are not hooked up yet 405 and 205 fluvals in temporarily)

Before you stop reading here, the tap water in my area is very good. Negligible amounts of chlorine by the time it hits the faucet. I have done waterchanges and fillups for decades with only nova aqua dechlorinator and I have been keeping discus for 3 years doing water changes from the tap with de-chlorinator and no problems whatsoever.

I then removed/added 180 gallons from the old cichlid tank into the 300g. Acclimated the malawis in a bucket to the new tank. After an hour or so they looked like they were gasping for air. Thought I had sufficient surface action on the tank and powerheads to disperse, but I hooked up air stones regardless. After 30 min some minimal improvement..... Or so I thought. 8 hours later all were dead. Did 2 10% water changes over the next day and a half and tried 2 new test cichlids. They went for about 4 hours then showed the same symptoms flipping at the top going for air then death spirals. Dead the next morning.

Pleco that was put in with the first group is stilll in the water and still living no problems.

My question. The type of rock used is still somewhat of a mystery.... as it was labeled mystery stone at the local stone distributor. It was not full of calcium per the vinegar test.

Current conditions
NO2: 0
NO3: 0
Chlorine: 0
PH: was high at 8 ~ 8.2 - keeping african cichlids mind you so this is desired.
KH: was high around 280 from the new rock - same as above
GH: - 300

Tap water (for example)
NO2: 0
NO3: 0
Chlorine: 0
PH: 6.8
KH: 80
GH: 150



The new rock had an impact on KH and PH somehow since the cichlids normal buffer rock is still in the 75g sump below and has not been connected to the main tank yet. So the new rock is buffering the water somehow.

I do not suspect chemicals/detergents/sprays or other to have entered the tank. I am very suspect of the rock though. Any other tests to run to determine what is going on with that rock?:nilly:

IMG_9858c.jpg
 
Vinegar is relatively weak. Try "pH down" (carbonic acid) and see if they fizz. But even if they don't fizz, they could be leaching any sort of toxic heavy metal or other contaminants. It does certainly sound like poisoning from somewhere and the rocks are a fine place to start. Was the older setup that the fish came from pretty much the same but without that type of rock? Look up 'limestone', 'sandstone' and other sedimentary mineral rocks. You'd be a lot better off knowing what they are. You can also easily go back to rock salesman, get the supplier on the phone and get them to tell you exactly what it is. If it's a random assortment of leftover rocks, you're stuck playing russian roulette on which exact rock is to blame.

Also call your municipal water treatment plant and find out if they recently increased any additives. This is the right time of year for adjustments to be made to accommodate algae blooms, etc.
 
I agree that vinegar (acetic acid) is a weak acid so it might not fizz very much to make the test accurate.

try the following test:

take a bucket of tap water, measure the pH.

take another bucket of tap water, measure the pH, add a few of those rocks.

let both sit for 24 hours.

test the pH again in both.

both should be higher than the intial reading.

the 'control bucket' (the one with no rock) will have a pH that raises because of C02 gas off.

the rock bucket should have an even higher pH because of the gas off + the calcium and magnesium carbonates that may be leaching out of it.

this will tell you for sure.

99.9% sure it is the rock.

but if you do the bucket test and the pH's are the same in both, its not the rocks..
 
Well I set up a test last night with a guppy in a bucket with the rock. Still alive. Guppy in a bucket with 2 week cured GE silicone II dead. Guppy in a bucket with wet GE silicone II dead. Contrary to many of the testimonials I have read stating it is ok..... it is not. And even despite stating 100% silicone..... Do not use the Sh*t. Thanks for the suggestions. The rock is still coming out with the silicone since it is clouding the water too much.
 
andy84;4221053; said:
Well I set up a test last night with a guppy in a bucket with the rock. Still alive. Guppy in a bucket with 2 week cured GE silicone II dead. Guppy in a bucket with wet GE silicone II dead. Contrary to many of the testimonials I have read stating it is ok..... it is not. And even despite stating 100% silicone..... Do not use the Sh*t. Thanks for the suggestions. The rock is still coming out with the silicone since it is clouding the water too much.
i really don't think it's the silicone II .I got a growout tank cheap about a year ago and used the silicone II without even thinking about it !!!! Put Orino fry in after cycling and raised them now to 10 or 11 inches and also have another set of fry in that tank right now doing well !! Pbass are pretty sensitive when fry Oh and also raised a 3 inch jardini to 10 inch before moving in that tank .This all before i read a thread in the forum saying it is bad.I believe it's the rock but i been wrong before.
 
Ammonia levels? With a high pH ammonia is quite deadly.
 
jeffers;4221875; said:
i thought you were suppose to use ge silicone I not II

As long as it doesn't contain any mold inhibitors, I think either is ok.

Bderick67;4221899; said:
Ammonia levels? With a high pH ammonia is quite deadly.

+1. Moving that many fish to an unestablished tank (unless both the canister filters were established) could have a very bad impact on ammonia, resulting in fairly quick poisoning.

bob965;4222651; said:
You didn't mention anything about cycling the new tank...

Was the tank or filters cycled first?
 
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