New challenge?
- Thread starter castro1212
- Start date
Some people need to relax. All fish in the fish trade are subject to conditions Such as small enclosures at one point or another in their lives. For example some cichlids are kept in 200 gallons for life such as umbee and dovii and many others like Midas and jaguar cichlids but is this ok? No, no it isn't. They claim a much larger territory in nature larger than even a 500 gallon tank worth of volume, some of them even hold a larger territory or require a larger volume of water to hunt or predate correctly even to grow and thrive correctly. People need to remember it's the people....Us who force any fish into any aquarium or enclosed conditions and decide weather it's alright or not, weather the size tank is sufficient or insufficient Who's to say a 55gallon is ok or not ok for a single oscar? I mean did the fish come with a tag on it saying this size tank is my minimum?!? Same goes for an RTC they may or may not be ok in an 8' x 4' or they may even be ok or not ok in a 6' x 4' but who is to say what is and what is not correct? My point is any enclosure/ aquarium is incorrect to keep a fish in. We simply cannot provide any enclosure for an RTC or any big cat which would allow for it to be at its full potential.They are not subject to this constriction or enclosure in the wild are they. Weather or not the enclosure is bigger or smaller does not make a difference. Regardless The fish was caught or bred for the fish trade and either way it is subject to un optimal conditions. Or conditions not seen in the wild. Let the guy get an RTC and let him learn. Let him decide for himself what size enclosure is best. I'm not saying put him in a 500 gallon and call it a day no. But what I am saying is that they way you learn is by trial and error... yes we are speaking about a fishes life and yes it may be inhumane to keep a RTC in anything less than a lake. But it's going to happen and people just have to accept it. This is the hobby for you. It wouldn't be a hobby if everyone quit keeping fish because they couldn't house them in 100% optimal conditions for life and the hobby would be dull without allowing people to experiment and try different ways and methods to keeping fish. I am probably going to get told I am 100% wrong but I thought I would say something. Without debate and discussion there wouldn't be an MFK. It's seems like its always a sensitive subject when talking about RTC. It's like you are walking on eggshells. Just let the guy see for himself the struggles of owning an RTC. Maybe he will upgrade maybe he won't but it's really none of my business. I'm only 17 so take what I said with a grain of salt... I am still learning too.. Just thought I would include my 2 cents.
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Thanks for the words and you have a point. I'm 17 also turning 18 in August.
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Some people need to relax.
***Always.
All fish in the fish trade are subject to conditions Such as small enclosures at one point or another in their lives. For example some cichlids are kept in 200 gallons for life such as umbee and dovii and many others like Midas and jaguar cichlids but is this ok? No, no it isn't. They claim a much larger territory in nature larger than even a 500 gallon tank worth of volume, some of them even hold a larger territory or require a larger volume of water to hunt or predate correctly even to grow and thrive correctly.
***It is not the size of a captive animal's territory in the wild that determines the correctness of the size of the enclosure. Male tigers needs hundreds of square miles. Lions, elephants, hippos, dolphins, leopards, birds, reptiles, etc. You still go to the zoo and look at them, admire, and learn about them, unless, of course, you are an extremist and/or want your child grow up learning about the world by markings on paper...
People need to remember it's the people....Us who force any fish into any aquarium or enclosed conditions and decide weather it's alright or not, weather the size tank is sufficient or insufficient Who's to say a 55gallon is ok or not ok for a single oscar?
***Obviously, people with authority and knowledge: scientists, esp. those studying animal behaviors, biologists, researchers, proven and respected aficionados, even if not professionals, highest level hobbyists, Public Aquaria workers, etc. (Note I don't fit any of those categories, even remotely.)
I mean did the fish come with a tag on it saying this size tank is my minimum?!?
***Did you come with a manual?
Same goes for an RTC they may or may not be ok in an 8' x 4' or they may even be ok or not ok in a 6' x 4' but who is to say what is and what is not correct?
***See above.
My point is any enclosure/ aquarium is incorrect to keep a fish in. We simply cannot provide any enclosure for an RTC or any big cat which would allow for it to be at its full potential.They are not subject to this constriction or enclosure in the wild are they. Weather or not the enclosure is bigger or smaller does not make a difference. Regardless The fish was caught or bred for the fish trade and either way it is subject to un optimal conditions. Or conditions not seen in the wild.
***That reminds me of throwing out a baby with dirty water. Black or white thinking is rarely fitting. No pet lives in optimal conditions, maybe except for a tape worm. No human either. You'd not know where to start, mate... So this is a circular thinking too.
Let the guy get an RTC and let him learn. Let him decide for himself what size enclosure is best. I'm not saying put him in a 500 gallon and call it a day no. But what I am saying is that they way you learn is by trial and error... yes we are speaking about a fishes life and yes it may be inhumane to keep a RTC in anything less than a lake. But it's going to happen and people just have to accept it. This is the hobby for you.
***?? William asked for opinions. We gave. And they vary. William is free.
It wouldn't be a hobby if everyone quit keeping fish because they couldn't house them in 100% optimal conditions for life and the hobby would be dull without allowing people to experiment and try different ways and methods to keeping fish.
***One is free to experiment all they want and not ask questions and not rely on what's already been learned, proven, and established by those knowledgeable folks mentioned above. Needless to say. We are here to help each other WHEN ASKED, not to dispense an unwanted, unsolicited, arrogant advice or tell others what to do. Or so I naively think
I am probably going to get told I am 100% wrong but I thought I would say something.
***Ditto
Without debate and discussion there wouldn't be an MFK.
***I like it friendly
It's seems like its always a sensitive subject when talking about RTC. It's like you are walking on eggshells.
***It's not an RTC issue. It's humane pet keeping practices which is a huge area and it is always too hot for many to handle, heh. Such "flaming activists" tend to strain a gnat and swallow a camel = love and fight for pets and hate and punish the people.
Just let the guy see for himself the struggles of owning an RTC. Maybe he will upgrade maybe he won't but it's really none of my business.
***Exactly. Who is stopping him? I don't see an issue here. He asked, we gave. It does not look like we gave anything that'd be new to him.
I'm only 17 so take what I said with a grain of salt... I am still learning too..
***I am 42, so what? Don't take me seriously at all
Just thought I would include my 2 cents.
*** $0.04 total deposited.
***Always.
All fish in the fish trade are subject to conditions Such as small enclosures at one point or another in their lives. For example some cichlids are kept in 200 gallons for life such as umbee and dovii and many others like Midas and jaguar cichlids but is this ok? No, no it isn't. They claim a much larger territory in nature larger than even a 500 gallon tank worth of volume, some of them even hold a larger territory or require a larger volume of water to hunt or predate correctly even to grow and thrive correctly.
***It is not the size of a captive animal's territory in the wild that determines the correctness of the size of the enclosure. Male tigers needs hundreds of square miles. Lions, elephants, hippos, dolphins, leopards, birds, reptiles, etc. You still go to the zoo and look at them, admire, and learn about them, unless, of course, you are an extremist and/or want your child grow up learning about the world by markings on paper...
People need to remember it's the people....Us who force any fish into any aquarium or enclosed conditions and decide weather it's alright or not, weather the size tank is sufficient or insufficient Who's to say a 55gallon is ok or not ok for a single oscar?
***Obviously, people with authority and knowledge: scientists, esp. those studying animal behaviors, biologists, researchers, proven and respected aficionados, even if not professionals, highest level hobbyists, Public Aquaria workers, etc. (Note I don't fit any of those categories, even remotely.)
I mean did the fish come with a tag on it saying this size tank is my minimum?!?
***Did you come with a manual?
Same goes for an RTC they may or may not be ok in an 8' x 4' or they may even be ok or not ok in a 6' x 4' but who is to say what is and what is not correct?
***See above.
My point is any enclosure/ aquarium is incorrect to keep a fish in. We simply cannot provide any enclosure for an RTC or any big cat which would allow for it to be at its full potential.They are not subject to this constriction or enclosure in the wild are they. Weather or not the enclosure is bigger or smaller does not make a difference. Regardless The fish was caught or bred for the fish trade and either way it is subject to un optimal conditions. Or conditions not seen in the wild.
***That reminds me of throwing out a baby with dirty water. Black or white thinking is rarely fitting. No pet lives in optimal conditions, maybe except for a tape worm. No human either. You'd not know where to start, mate... So this is a circular thinking too.
Let the guy get an RTC and let him learn. Let him decide for himself what size enclosure is best. I'm not saying put him in a 500 gallon and call it a day no. But what I am saying is that they way you learn is by trial and error... yes we are speaking about a fishes life and yes it may be inhumane to keep a RTC in anything less than a lake. But it's going to happen and people just have to accept it. This is the hobby for you.
***?? William asked for opinions. We gave. And they vary. William is free.
It wouldn't be a hobby if everyone quit keeping fish because they couldn't house them in 100% optimal conditions for life and the hobby would be dull without allowing people to experiment and try different ways and methods to keeping fish.
***One is free to experiment all they want and not ask questions and not rely on what's already been learned, proven, and established by those knowledgeable folks mentioned above. Needless to say. We are here to help each other WHEN ASKED, not to dispense an unwanted, unsolicited, arrogant advice or tell others what to do. Or so I naively think
I am probably going to get told I am 100% wrong but I thought I would say something.
***Ditto
Without debate and discussion there wouldn't be an MFK.
***I like it friendly
It's seems like its always a sensitive subject when talking about RTC. It's like you are walking on eggshells.
***It's not an RTC issue. It's humane pet keeping practices which is a huge area and it is always too hot for many to handle, heh. Such "flaming activists" tend to strain a gnat and swallow a camel = love and fight for pets and hate and punish the people.
Just let the guy see for himself the struggles of owning an RTC. Maybe he will upgrade maybe he won't but it's really none of my business.
***Exactly. Who is stopping him? I don't see an issue here. He asked, we gave. It does not look like we gave anything that'd be new to him.
I'm only 17 so take what I said with a grain of salt... I am still learning too..
***I am 42, so what? Don't take me seriously at all
Just thought I would include my 2 cents.
*** $0.04 total deposited.
You make a lot of good points! Having said that, many people who come to MFK (I think) are looking for insight and advice before they make their own choices. While nearly every enclosure we provide does not match the one nature offers, we can at least offer opinions on what seems to work and what seems to not work. A 20' round pool might not match nature for a TSN, but we know that a 75 gallon will not. Still, I agree with the sentiment of your post and people who are serious about the hobby and prepared to correct their mistakes are going to become fine hobbyists. Nothing wrong with most mistakes if you learn from them.
My two cents, if there is something such as the rtc that are cheap and common raise it til you cant afford it then sale it, trade it, or eat it. Thats what humans have done longer than people have had glass boxes with lights shining on them.
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Ornamental fish can be and most often are exposed to meds that are not FDA approved for food fishes. I don't think it'd be advisable from the health risk standpoint, not to mention few people would be heartless (?) or brave (?) enough to eat their pet, unless this saves their life.
Many don't think of fish as a pet in the sense of a dog, cat, bird, even reptile. They think fish are too primitive. It's a grey area. To each its own, I guess
Many don't think of fish as a pet in the sense of a dog, cat, bird, even reptile. They think fish are too primitive. It's a grey area. To each its own, I guess
