New tank questions

[TimTheBadass]

Hi guys, I have a few questions regarding a new tank.
I've decided on a 430g acrylic tank that I will be getting next year.
Dimensions will be 96x36x30 or 72x48x30 depending on the size and shape of the room it's going in. I think the 8ft tank would be better for cichla though.

Question 1- How many large/adult cichla do you guys think would be comfortable in this size tank? I'll be keeping monos, kelberi and a pinima for certain.

I have absolutely no experience with sump filters but I know this is the way forward with a tank like this.

Question 2- How big does the sump need to be for a tank of this size?

Question 3 -What size pumps do I need for a 430g that is stocked with large cichla or how many times should the tank volume be turned over per hour?

 

[TimTheBadass]

C'mon guys. A little help here. I know a few of you are running big tanks with big fish.

 

[waynes world]

Hi kida, i would go for a minimum of a 3500gph pump to give a 8x turnover and a sump of 120g-150g, just from what i am doing as i am building a 500g. i will be housing rays TSNxRT cat and other Cichla.
Not sure on how many Cichla you could house but at a guess for fully grown at about 2` i would say 4-6.

Oh and that Cichla in your avatar is awsome mate, what type is that?

 

[HULON]

C'mon guys. A little help here. I know a few of you are running big tanks with big fish.

Hey Tim not completed with my tank just yet but i have two 75 gal sumps ?wet dry's with probebly 60 + gal's of media and one pump pushing 3000 gph right now but plan on adding at least one more 3000 gal pump possably two with adding a bio reactor that i have made already from a tub 100 gal and also plan on adding lots of lucky bamboo to the wet dry's So for a total of at least 6000 gph and possably 9000 gph on my 10X3X3 the more movement and mechanical less cleaning for sure am also going to add a purely mechanical filter pond size a huge Diatomatious filter without the messy powder of coarse ....The hardest thing to figure out for me is getting the movement WITHOUT blowing the guys out of the water so very large returns are in order at least 1 1/2 therfore spreading the flow not getting a jet stream just smooth constant flow here that is what i like ....!!!!And Tim i would go for the 8 footer for sure ...Oh and Tim the 3000 gph is ok to start the tank and cycle but definatly not even close to enough flow ...

 

[TimTheBadass]

That's my kelberi in my avatar. Thanks for the help. Hulon I knew I could count on you to chime in, much appreciated.

I'll probably go with a 4000gph pump giving me 10 x turnover per hour. If I need a 100g+ sump what dimensions do you recommend? I was thinking 60x20x20 or 48x24x20. Do you have to place the sump in the cabinet while you are building it?

 

[HULON]

That's my kelberi in my avatar. Thanks for the help. Hulon I knew I could count on you to chime in, much appreciated.

I'll probably go with a 4000gph pump giving me 10 x turnover per hour. If I need a 100g+ sump what dimensions do you recommend? I was thinking 60x20x20 or 48x24x20. Do you have to place the sump in the cabinet while you are building it?

Honestly Tim i would the 48X24X20 That way you have extra room for your pump and whatever else you are going to put under there ..Another thing i would highly recomend a metal stand that you can attach wood panels to just safer stronger and if you ever happen to have a major catastrafy witch the longer you keep the more the chances increase on having a major spill the metal stand will not lose integraty ..Going back to sump size i regret doinf the two 75's as it took all the room under my stand leaving no room for other items ....

 

[Venom SS]

Keep in mind that you can "over pump" the tank. The drains have to be able to keep up with the amount of water you are pulling from the sump and putting back into the tank. 1" drains only drain at 600gph. A tank 8ft long is probably only going to have two 1" drains unless you have it built and specify otherwise. If youre pulling 4000gph out of your sump and only draining into at 1200gph...you can imagine the result. That flow can be throttled back if you put adjustable valves in your return lines, but that puts more load on the pump and makes them hum alot.

If I were to do it all over again, which someday I will, I would do this:

1: Go for the biggest tank you have room for. Going taller will only get you gallons, and wet armpits at cleaning time. Longer and wider is the key. Really no need to exceed 30" in height. Personally ide stick to 24". Tall tanks are beautiful to look at, but a pain to clean.

2. Go for the biggest sump you have room for. If its going under tank be sure and not have it so tall that you cant easily access the inside of it. Stuff it full of layers of mechanical and bio. One thing I will do when I do my next one is leave room in the sump for a refugium type of area for bamboo or some other live vegetation. From what I know bamboo eats nitrates like no other.

3. Plumb it big. If you want it to truly have some turnover, its gonna need some pipes. Open your drains up to 1.5 or even 2". Give your pump(s) a break and make your returns fat as hell too. When I build another one, my returns are gonna be 1.5" or bigger. the standard 3/4" returns put alot of back pressure on the pump and make them noisy. If you can open them up even a noisy brand of pump will quiet down. Give a good pump like a Reeflo a big fat return and it will run nice and quiet, all the while turning over like a river.

 

[waynes world]

As Above ^^^^^

The biggest is the best when it comes to filtration, with the minimum of 25% of the tank volume, always go bigger on pipe work incase you want to fit larger pump/s in the future, i will be using atleast two 2 inch pipes for the overflow, i am using a 3500g pump as it what i have at hand, i will more than likley add another at a future time.

I maybe lucky but i am also building a filter room for 200g sump and external pool pump with maybe a sand filter also as i have one spare, i was going to build a Koi pond, the reason for the spare bits.

PS,your kelbri is awsome mate, going to see if there any around, mind you was hard enough to find my Ocellaris.

 

[TimTheBadass]

Honestly Tim i would the 48X24X20 That way you have extra room for your pump and whatever else you are going to put under there ..Another thing i would highly recomend a metal stand that you can attach wood panels to just safer stronger and if you ever happen to have a major catastrafy witch the longer you keep the more the chances increase on having a major spill the metal stand will not lose integraty ..Going back to sump size i regret doinf the two 75's as it took all the room under my stand leaving no room for other items ....

I think I will go for 48x24x20. Can't go taller than 20" or I won't be able to get into the thing and I don't want the stand taller than 30". I might run an fx5 too for mechanical. Should keep the bottom clean.
I'll probably have to build the stand still as I imagine steel stands are pricey. I will be painting the entire thing with a couple of coats of black gloss so it's well protected and nice and shiny.
What are the benefits of running your pump outside the sump as aposed to submerged in the sump?

Keep in mind that you can "over pump" the tank. The drains have to be able to keep up with the amount of water you are pulling from the sump and putting back into the tank. 1" drains only drain at 600gph. A tank 8ft long is probably only going to have two 1" drains unless you have it built and specify otherwise. If youre pulling 4000gph out of your sump and only draining into at 1200gph...you can imagine the result. That flow can be throttled back if you put adjustable valves in your return lines, but that puts more load on the pump and makes them hum alot.

If I were to do it all over again, which someday I will, I would do this:

1: Go for the biggest tank you have room for. Going taller will only get you gallons, and wet armpits at cleaning time. Longer and wider is the key. Really no need to exceed 30" in height. Personally ide stick to 24". Tall tanks are beautiful to look at, but a pain to clean.

I don't think my girlfriend will allow bigger than 8x3. I've been drumming that figure into her head just so she get's used to the fact I'm getting a bigger tank. I really want to go 30" tall. I think they look amazing and these new monos are really deep and don't look right in a 24" tank

2. Go for the biggest sump you have room for. If its going under tank be sure and not have it so tall that you cant easily access the inside of it. Stuff it full of layers of mechanical and bio. One thing I will do when I do my next one is leave room in the sump for a refugium type of area for bamboo or some other live vegetation. From what I know bamboo eats nitrates like no other.

I'll have to look into finding bamboo. Shifting nitrates would be great. Are there any lighting requirement's for bamboo? I was planning on putting pond filter sponge in the first chamber of the filter. Then bags of bio balls and ceramic rings. I've read that these are the best for bio filtration so I'll take what I have in my canisters and I can buy 13lb of the stuff for $60 which I think is pretty cheap.

3. Plumb it big. If you want it to truly have some turnover, its gonna need some pipes. Open your drains up to 1.5 or even 2". Give your pump(s) a break and make your returns fat as hell too. When I build another one, my returns are gonna be 1.5" or bigger. the standard 3/4" returns put alot of back pressure on the pump and make them noisy. If you can open them up even a noisy brand of pump will quiet down. Give a good pump like a Reeflo a big fat return and it will run nice and quiet, all the while turning over like a river.

I was planning on having a box weir either in a rear corner or rear centre with 2 x 2" drains in it. From my research this should drain 4800gph. Would it be better for me to run 2 x 2000gph pumps with 1" return pipes or a 4000gph pump with 1.5" return pipe. Also which would be quieter.

Thanks for the help guys. I think I'm getting an idea of how to setup this tank now. I will have to start coming up with stand designs that will be solid but allow space for the sump and the plumbing to enter the underneath of the tank.

 

[HULON]

And yes tim just as venom suggested big pipes are the way to go movement but not blowing them out off the water with little jet streams ..On my 675 i drilled two extra 1 1/2 bulkheads for returns and put 22.5 black ABS on the so i can adjust witch way the flow is going only 5 inches from the bottom BUT this tank is in the garage so not as much concerne was put on the fact that one of these bulkheads might leak anyway they keep the bottom very clean one of these returns sits on each side of the tank with one three thousand gph pump blowing these two replacing the need for ugly power heads in your tank and hooked directly to my sumps and the other matching pump will run strickly mechanical .....And ya no need to go over 20 inches tall on you sump for sure ....