New to MFK, 240 gal Nitrate questions...

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo

Destin

Feeder Fish
Feb 2, 2013
1
0
0
Destin, Florida
I have a 240 gal freshwater 8' x 2' x 2' tank, that is overstocked and joined to get some insight on lowering nitrates in the tank. Current inhabitants (measured tip to tip) are:


  • one Channel Catfish, 17"
  • one Silver Arowana, 16"
  • two red belly Pacu, 12" and 11"
  • one Mayan Cichlid, 8"
  • one Leopard Ctenopoma, 5"
  • four adult male Angelfish, 4" each
  • two blood parrot cichlids, 4" each
  • one comet (feeder) Goldfish, aka "the survivor", 7"
  • I have two 5" Peacock Bass on the way

After I add the Peacock Bass I have no intentions of adding anymore to the mix.

Being that the tank is overstocked, the filtration system is complex. Details are:


  • Overflow (drilled with two standpipes)
  • Large trickle sump (65 gal), overflow water goes to 1" thick floss in tray, then to bio balls, to a chamber with airstones and powerheads, then to foam filter pads, through a carbon / zeolite / gravel mix, then to a refugium.
  • Refugium holds a mag drive 12, mag drive 7 and a mag drive 3 pump.
  • Mag drive 12 flows through a pentek 20" bag vessel filter with 50 micron bag, then to tank.
  • Mag drive 7 flows through another pentek 20" bag vessel filter with 50 micron bag, then to tank.
  • Mag drive 3 flows through yet another pentek 20" bag vessel filter with 50 micron bag, then through two 36 watt uv sterilizers in series, then to tank.
  • In the tank there are a total of five powerheads, two are injecting air, three are for making a strong current in the tank. (For some reason, the Arowana goes crazy, bullying everything in the tank without them.)
  • Two 150 watt heaters and one 300 watt heater are in the refugium, keeping the water temp between 82-83 degrees.

I also have assembled a system which performs automatic water changes. Basically, a sprinkler timer activates a solenoid for 25 minutes every 12 hours (approximately 20 gallons per activation) (40 gallon water change per day, everyday). Water flows through a series of five canister filters, with an alternating combination of carbon block and GAC filters. Two filters in a series yielded 0 ppm chlorine, the extra three are just overkill. A float switch activates a pump which pumps water to a drain and keeps the sump at a safe level.

I previously used R.O. water, but the hassles of adding back salt and minerals, then buffering the PH proved to be too much when combined with the fact it had to run 12 + hours a day for a 40 gallon water change.

Gravel is vacuumed twice a month along with a 50% water change, filter media, bags and carbon are replaced once a month. All of the above keeps everything down to roughly 3 hours of maintenance a month, two of the hours are just for the gravel cleaning, one hour a month for everything else.

Fish are fed frozen shrimp once a day, various cichlid pellets are also given a few hours later with the filter shut down. Any excess food is netted out before turning the sump pumps back on. Rosie reds, guppies and occasionally comet feeders are given to mix things up. Pacus are also given walnuts, peanuts, rasberries, etc as treats.

All of this being said, I test the water every few days and these are typical results:


  • Nitrate 40ppm, rarely 80ppm
  • Nitrite, usually 0, rarely .5 ppm
  • GH 75-100 ppm
  • Chlorine 0 ppm
  • KH 150-180 ppm
  • PH 6.8 - 7.2



  1. Is 40-80ppm of Nitrate acceptable?
  2. What is the norm for Nitrate in other tanks?
  3. Is there a better way to reduce this without larger daily water changes?
  4. I've tried plants, but even with grow lights, timers etc I can't get anything to thrive in my sump, not even moss balls or Java moss :irked: I can grow fish, but I definitely don't have a green thumb...

Here's a few pictures, if you notice any fish which wasn't listed above, they have already been eaten...

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welcome to mfk........please give us some pics.. that is quite a collection.. if you need help posting or finding the right forum just ask..always here to help..
 
Sounds like you have a really nice setup, but I think your stock is going to be a real challenge in a 240G. As your fish continue to grow, keeping nitrates down is going to be a real challenge (I always aim for 20PPM, but sometimes get to 40).

IMO, your stock in a 240G is unsustainable...outside of getting a tank that is 2 to 3 times bigger than your current setup, reducing your bio-load will be the best change you can make. If a bigger tank isn't an option, I would consider getting rid of the Pacu (they will not be healthy in a 240G for life), Channel Cat and Aro.

But if you are willing to upgrade, the adage, "the solution to pollution is dilution" will help keep you and your fishes much happier/healthier; if you double your water volume (get a 8x4x2) you will affectively cut your nitrate levels in half. (Although I think a 480G is still too small for Pacu).

Another thing to consider is that it sounds like you are overfeeding if you are having to net out uneaten food. Cut back on the amount you are feeding and your Nitrates should drop some.

Can you try reposting the pix? The link isn't working and I'd love to see your setup.
 
Welcome!!

Id say 40-80 is within acceptable limits, but as Alex pointed out, it's not the nitrates you need to be concerned about. 100 filters on that tank won't change the nitrate levels or the behavior of the growing fish. Good filtration is important, but not your most pressing issues. If it were me and I had an auto-water changer, I'd increase the amount of water being changed for the short term.

Then decisions will need to be made for the stock you currently have. Sounds like a cool tank though either way
 
Hi, read your stats with interest. I will be of no help to you only a sidebar. I am over wintering at least twice the body mass of themperate fish in only slightly larger water volume. The building temp at that level is approx 68 deg. Filtering through a large Laguna pond filter and small swimming pool cartrige filter with less frequent water changes. Although these are of less value I see no evidence of stress and if they had teeth they would take a finger off at feeding time.
 
I think you are looking at one of two options;

1. more water changes
2. Larger body of water, i.e. a bigger tank

Your current setup is not large enough to sustain that stocking long term.
 
You have a great filter system, but why do you clean the filter media every month?

Secondly, it looks like you overfeed. Cut feedings a lot.

Third, get rid of the Pacu. You will never solve the problem with that load machine.

Fourth, increase the automatic wc system quantity and you should be good.

Fifft and not least, wellcome from another non green thumber :)
 
I will agree with what the others have said as far as the stock being a bit heavy for the tank setup.

Back to the question at hand though:

Right now without a tank upgrade or stock reduction I'd say your best bet in reducing nitrates is more water changes; along with adding some nitrate loving low light plants like golden pothos. They can be added to your sump or main tank and aren't hard to grow like completely submerged aquatic plants.

A few links on pothos in aquariums:

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?504763-Cheap-plants-less-nitrate!-POTHOS

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...ly-filtration-(why-not-popular-in-the-hobby-)

Welcome to the forums! +1 on a re-upload of the pics; definitely interested in seeing your setup.
 
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