newbie to dats, need help from pros

[ceejaye23]

got some questions for you dat experts out there. first let me give you some info. here's what i have.

-60 gal (48" long) with mix black and natural colored substrate, lots of driftwoods, small powerhead(rated for a 20gal, outpout nozzle is aimed at mid-top), AC500 filter, 36" light(POWERGLO).

-my dats are
-1x 1" NTT
-2x 2" NTT
-1x 1" AT
-1x 2" AT

here are my questions:

1. they like hard water, driftwoods make the water soft but they use them for cover, should i take the driftoods out? i dont use test kits, i just maintain weekly WC at 30%.

2. i noticed that when the lights are on at night, they hide all night and the colors fade or they become unstable. but if i turn the lights off,they become active. BUT once they finished hunting and feeding for guppies, they go back to unstable mode even when the lights are off and go back to their hiding spots. does your dats do the same?

3. when i bought the 1" NTT, the set up in the lfs was bare tank, bright lights but no hiding spots and it was stable even with the very bright light and it has no caves or driftoods to go into. how come it did the things in question #2 when i got it? should i train these guys with the lights on all day and take out the hiding spots(driftwoods)?

4. is it that important to have hiding spots or places for small dats like these? i know for small fishes they prefer to hide. or better to take out the hiding spots and let them get used to it, the lights, and the people. the tank is in the bedroom so not high-traffic area.

any advice will be greatly appreciated. thank you!!

 

[brianp]

got some questions for you dat experts out there. first let me give you some info. here's what i have.

-60 gal (48" long) with mix black and natural colored substrate, lots of driftwoods, small powerhead(rated for a 20gal, outpout nozzle is aimed at mid-top), AC500 filter, 36" light(POWERGLO).

-my dats are
-1x 1" NTT
-2x 2" NTT
-1x 1" AT
-1x 2" AT

here are my questions:

1. they like hard water, driftwoods make the water soft but they use them for cover, should i take the driftoods out? i dont use test kits, i just maintain weekly WC at 30%.


2. i noticed that when the lights are on at night, they hide all night and the colors fade or they become unstable. but if i turn the lights off,they become active. BUT once they finished hunting and feeding for guppies, they go back to unstable mode even when the lights are off and go back to their hiding spots. does your dats do the same?


3. when i bought the 1" NTT, the set up in the lfs was bare tank, bright lights but no hiding spots and it was stable even with the very bright light and it has no caves or driftoods to go into. how come it did the things in question #2 when i got it? should i train these guys with the lights on all day and take out the hiding spots(driftwoods)?


4. is it that important to have hiding spots or places for small dats like these? i know for small fishes they prefer to hide. or better to take out the hiding spots and let them get used to it, the lights, and the people. the tank is in the bedroom so not high-traffic area.


any advice will be greatly appreciated. thank you!!

Leave in 1-2 pieces for their sense of security...don't overdo the wood. I rarely use test kits also. 30% weekly wc is good until they get larger...then this will have to be increased.

Give them 8-10 hours of subdued lighting per day. At night, use a dim nightlight near the tank just so it's not pitchblack. Don't worry about the "stability". It is what it is and will probably improve as they grow larger. Just concentrate on keeping them healthy. Don't leave the lights on all night.

Life is full of mysteries...forget it. Leave a couple of pieces of wood in the tank. IMO, bare-bottom is preferable from the standpoint of being able to maintain better water quality.

Give them wood to lean against for their sense of security. When they are comfortable, they will come out. Work WITH their instincts and comfort level, rather than trying to force them to conform to what you would like them to do.

 

[FunWow!]

Giving them a place to hide is your option....I noticed it causes more fighting when you leave places for them to hide. I dont give mine a place to hide. Dats are a type to perch so they are nocturnal. Most dont like bright lights but you can get them use to it to where they dont care about it. Dont leave the lights on 24/7 it isnt good for the fish.

 

[Ade]

I have agree with funwow and brianp

They took words right out of my mouth.
Don't worry about driftwood lowrering ph unless u have say 25kg of it in the tank
Simple rule for me though, if u want to see your dats more, take all hiding spaces out.
The tigers will get used to it.

Because your dats are small howevr, if u put othr semi agressive tank mate in the future, then a few small hiding places wouldn't hurt, otherwise don't bother. Give them a place to hide and they will.

 

[bongko]

I think that dats just require a whole lotta patience. They are the most timid fish I've kept, never do what u want them to do (come out and show off those nice stripes), and are picky about what u feed them (except the AT's). Check out my previous post and you can see I have a fair amount of wood/rocks so they do tend to hide alot, hell i didnt even see some of my small dats for a while.
BUT recently I did find that adding some fish that stay towards the top of the tank help alot. I went out and got a tin foil barb (couldnt find a decent priced fei feng) and 3 silver dollars and BOOM instant action! My large NTT's cant help but poke their heads out and see whats swimming around the tank and the smaller dats all follow in unison.
As for setting up the wood, I did make some changes and instead of building huge shelters for the dats, I spaced out the wood so that the wood doesnt completely hide the dats. Now the wood does cause territorial behavior with dats which is why i spaced the wood out a bit and made sure there was enough hiding places for everyone.
Previously I tried taking out everything and going sand bottom, but I found out that the bigger dats tend to stay in a corner and the smaller dats hide behind powerheads and heaters. I think after my dats grow larger (10" or so) I would probably take out all the wood and let them get used to an open environment, but for now I'm just trying to help them feel more comfortable in whatever "natural" environment I can build for them.
Anyways, I think the best thing about keeping dats is that once you get them to flare its extremely satisfying (my two large NTT's did flare once; lights on, stripes out, swimming all around the tank....they stopped when i added my smaller dats.....)

 

[ceejaye23]

i will take all advices in to consideration. thanks a lot fellas! i already took some drift woods out but they still have some hiding places or spots. i will try to minimize the light i cannot afford a dimmer light right now. thank you again.

 

[ceejaye23]

UPDATE...

i re-arranged the driftwoods, made them look like caves. i also added a tinfoil, 4" TL. adding the larger tinfoil made them a little bolder. they're all eating rosies or guppies, i will continue to give them what they want for a week and then switch to bloodworms and eventually train them to eat frozen.

my smallest NTT at 1", the one that i got from the lfs and has been always stable and continues to be stable whether the lights are on or off. he swims a lot and does not care if im around watching them. could this be because he got used to the bright lights and people in the lfs already?

meanwhile, the other NTT's are still skittish specially the biggest one. he will only be stable when hiding, but if it sees movement outside the tank, in a second it will lose all its colors and turn dark brown. the biggest AT eats like a pig and is also most of the time out of hiding, stable and showing bright colors. the other smaller AT is sometimes unstable and same with the 1.5" NTT.

the dats that came from rich was used to low or no lights at all, not used to people because they were in a tank in a very low traffic area. the smallest dat (NTT) from the LFS is always stable.

is it because of their prevoius set ups before i got them that's why they are like this right now?