Nitrite .25i 125 gallon

[Hmontoya93]

Hello, I just finished my cycle on my 125 took about a month, this was my first fishless cycle, i used fishfood, waited for nitrites to come and go and nitrates to come etc..

I added 2 really small blood parrots yesterday

and I already have nitrite and ammonia readings of .25 so what do I do know ? Using api liquid, and I have done 4 test for nitrite in the past 24 hours and they seem to alternate from 0 to .25 which is confusing as well.

I will keep on doing daily water changes, but I was wondering if adding tetra safe start would help before adding prime

 

[Rocksor]

If you haven't purchased safe start, then don't add it. Just daily dose for the whole tank with Prime and it will protect your fish from ammonia and nitrite until the tank is fully established. Ammonia and nitrite need to stay below 0.25ppm so no more than 50% water changes daily.

 

[skjl47]

Hello; Two things to suggest. First is to test the source water. Some folks have source water that is reported to have measurable levels of things like nitrate. At the least, testing the source water may help indicate if the issue is with the tank water only.
Next get some distilled water and run the tests for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Distilled water should be pretty much zero for all three. I consider this a standard to see if there is some issue with the tests themselves. Also the distilled water can be used to rinse out the vials to make sure they are free of residues.

You do not say which sort of test is used. If the test "strips" then there can be quality of results questions. Most experienced folks suggest the use of a master test kit. That is another thing to be considered.

There is another scenario for which I am not competent to fully address. I have read of a situation where folks use a water conditioner, say SAFE or PRIME, and this water conditioner binds the ammonia into a form which makes it OK for the fish. However it has been my understanding the ammonia can still show up on the tests. There have been numerous posts about this over the years. I follow the logic but am not secure enough in the details to explain it well.

There is also the possibility your cycle was not complete.

 

[Hmontoya93]

If you haven't purchased safe start, then don't add it. Just daily dose for the whole tank with Prime and it will protect your fish from ammonia and nitrite until the tank is fully established. Ammonia and nitrite need to stay below 0.25ppm so no more than 50% water changes daily.

Thank you, do you recommend dosing the water from the water change with prime or adding directly on tank or both?

 

[Hmontoya93]

Hello; Two things to suggest. First is to test the source water. Some folks have source water that is reported to have measurable levels of things like nitrate. At the least, testing the source water may help indicate if the issue is with the tank water only.
Next get some distilled water and run the tests for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Distilled water should be pretty much zero for all three. I consider this a standard to see if there is some issue with the tests themselves. Also the distilled water can be used to rinse out the vials to make sure they are free of residues.

You do not say which sort of test is used. If the test "strips" then there can be quality of results questions. Most experienced folks suggest the use of a master test kit. That is another thing to be considered.

There is another scenario for which I am not competent to fully address. I have read of a situation where folks use a water conditioner, say SAFE or PRIME, and this water conditioner binds the ammonia into a form which makes it OK for the fish. However it has been my understanding the ammonia can still show up on the tests. There have been numerous posts about this over the years. I follow the logic but am not secure enough in the details to explain it well.

There is also the possibility your cycle was not complete.

I’ve been using the api liquid test, and I have

Hello; Two things to suggest. First is to test the source water. Some folks have source water that is reported to have measurable levels of things like nitrate. At the least, testing the source water may help indicate if the issue is with the tank water only.
Next get some distilled water and run the tests for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Distilled water should be pretty much zero for all three. I consider this a standard to see if there is some issue with the tests themselves. Also the distilled water can be used to rinse out the vials to make sure they are free of residues.

You do not say which sort of test is used. If the test "strips" then there can be quality of results questions. Most experienced folks suggest the use of a master test kit. That is another thing to be considered.

There is another scenario for which I am not competent to fully address. I have read of a situation where folks use a water conditioner, say SAFE or PRIME, and this water conditioner binds the ammonia into a form which makes it OK for the fish. However it has been my understanding the ammonia can still show up on the tests. There have been numerous posts about this over the years. I follow the logic but am not secure enough in the details to explain it well.

There is also the possibility your cycle was not complete.

I am using the API liquid test,

I am afraid it may have not cycled properly because I only got nitrite readings for a day or 2. Also nitrate readings can be so frustrating to read, so I assumed I had 20 ppm at one point.

what confuses me is that I can do the nitrite test on the same day and get blue, light purple, and then blue, so I am not sure if there is nitrites but I am assuming there are

The fish seem very good so far, but I am trying to make sure they survive this possible incomplete cycle

 

[skjl47]

Also nitrate readings can be so frustrating to read,

Hello; If memory serves one of the problems with this test is the amount of shaking. Some report the need to shake the heck out of it.

confuses me is that I can do the nitrite test on the same day and get blue, light purple, and then blue, so I am not sure if there is nitrites

Hello; Two things come to mind. One is the "cycle" is a dynamic process. That is the balance between the beneficial bacteria (bb), the chemicals they use as nutrients and the amount of these chemicals the fish excrete changes. It could be the rotting fish food used for a fishless cycle did not generate as much ammonia as the two blood pirate fish now do. That could mean the colonies of bb are not yet large enough to fully handle the amounts of ammonia and nitrite being introduced into the water. The water changes you do will help keep these toxins diluted and the use of something like SAFE or PRIME also helps.

Just daily dose for the whole tank with Prime and it will protect your fish from ammonia and nitrite until the tank is fully established. Ammonia and nitrite need to stay below 0.25ppm so no more than 50% water changes daily.

Hello; I agree with this. Use SAFE or PRIME and keep the % of water change (WC) as suggested. There is a catch -22 sort of thing with an incomplete cycle and live fish. You could do 80 to 90% WC every day to protect the fish from the toxins but that reduces the amount of ammonia available to promote the growth of the bb. I guess you could keep doing massive WC but that likely will delay the establishment of enough bb. The amount of bb adjusts to the amount of ammonia and nitrite around. At some point you want to have a balance between the output of the live animals in the water and the bb that can use that amount of output.

Good luck

 

[skjl47]

Hello; Two things come to mind. One is the "cycle" is a dynamic process. That is the balance between the beneficial bacteria (bb), the chemicals they use as nutrients and the amount of these chemicals the fish excrete changes. It could be the rotting fish food used for a fishless cycle did not generate as much ammonia as the two blood pirate fish now do. That could mean the colonies of bb are not yet large enough to fully handle the amounts of ammonia and nitrite being introduced into the water. The water changes you do will help keep these toxins diluted and the use of something like SAFE or PRIME also helps.

Hello; I intended to add more so will here. The other thought is where having distilled water can help. May be that the vials have a residue which is skewing your results. Adding distilled water to the vials can help clean out the residues. One member described it as being like a vacuum in the sense it will pull residues from the vials. Rinse the vials with tap water and then let them sit with distilled water in them for a while. Just a thought.

 

[Rocksor]

I would also put distilled water in the caps. Once you drain the vials of the distilled water, use a paper towel to dry both the vials and caps in order to remove any more contaminants.

Thank you, do you recommend dosing the water from the water change with prime or adding directly on tank or both?

I add directly to the tank before a refill, you can do 50% of the dosage (near the refill area) before adding new water and the other 50% halfway through adding new water to the tank. I'm assuming this is a very large tank 55g+, and buckets are not viable for such water changes.

If you ever plan to use a bacteria colony product like Safe Start, wait at least 3 hours after a water change has completed.

 

[tarheel96]

It could be the rotting fish food used for a fishless cycle did not generate as much ammonia as the two blood pirate fish now do. That could mean the colonies of bb are not yet large enough to fully handle the amounts of ammonia and nitrite being introduced into the water

I agree. You don't yet have enough nitrifying bacteria to convert all the ammonia into nitrite and nitrite into nitrate, and you likely are dealing with a higher level of ammonia now than you had during cycling.

The other thing you need to be aware of is that if your tap water contains chloramine and you are performing large water changes more often than during cycling then your bioload has likely increased (more ammonia). Many places in the US and throughout the rest of the world add chloramine (NH2CL) to tap water. Chloramine is made by adding ammonia to chlorine. So, if your water contains chloramine then you are adding ammonia to the tank when you perform water changes (or NH2, which the API Master test kit reads as Total Ammonia).

This NH form, like (NH3 + NH4) is converted into nitrite and then nitrate by nitrifying bacteria so your beneficial bacteria will soon grow to handle the NH. My tap water contains chloramine which the API Master test kit reads as 1 ppm ammonia. This is quickly converted into nitrate by the bacteria (within 12-24 hours) so it is not harmful to the fish as long as Prime or Safe is added to neutralize the ammonia when water changes are made.

In time, your nitrifying bacteria will be able to deal with the extra ammonia ... whatever the source.

In the meantime, I'd follow the advice given by Rocksor. You can also add a small amount of salt to block the uptake of nitrite in the fish.

*In order to know if your tap water contains chloramine, test your tap water for ammonia using the API master test kit. A reading of anything other than 0 PPM ammonia strait from the tap almost certainly means that your water contains chloramine.

 

[skjl47]

Hello; Let me add another thing. If you use PRIME and it begins to be an expense, then consider using SAFE. They are the same product except for the form. PRIME is liquid. SAFE is powder. SAFE is much more cost effective by a big factor. Prime is much easier to dose. Safe costs much less to use.