Nitrogen cycle

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arwen

arwen

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Dec 2, 2010
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Jig isle
Hi guys,

Thanks for reading 1st of all, heres what's in for me.

Had recently changed a sump filter. All the medias had been changed, commencing with cycling of tank. Todate I have tried measuring the parameters. How does it sound if I have traces of no3, does that mean my water is fully cycled?

Is it possible to skip the measuring of no.2 since there is no3 presence...

Cheers
 
When cycling, and in general, it's best to test all parameters. You want zero ammonia and nitrite, and below 40ppm nitrates before adding fish. Your cycle should be able to convert 4ppm ammonia (that you dose into the tank) into nitrite, and then into nitrate in a 24 hour period. Then you need to do a few large water changes to get your nitrates down and add water.
 
arwen said:
Hi guys,

Thanks for reading 1st of all, heres what's in for me.

Had recently changed a sump filter. All the medias had been changed, commencing with cycling of tank. Todate I have tried measuring the parameters. How does it sound if I have traces of no3, does that mean my water is fully cycled?

Is it possible to skip the measuring of no.2 since there is no3 presence...

Cheers
Click to expand...

Hello; I do not have any particular advice on the testing other than why not test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate if you have the capacity?

My take is you changed out the filter media and added a new sump or just changed the media from the old sump. With the assumption the tank was established, cycled and no other changes were made, then the tank should have beneficial bacteria (bb) colonies in other places in the tank.
From reading many posts I follow there is a believe the bb are only in the filter media. This does not seem correct to me. My understanding being the bb colonize many surfaces in the tank including, but not limited to, the filter media. There may be an valid argument that the filter media holds a high portion of the total bb population due to the flow of water forced thru. There should be bb on the other surfaces in a tank in addition to the filter media. The tubes and surfaces of the filter should hold bb. The live plants, décor, substrate (near the surface), snails may all have bb on their surfaces. My guess being that areas in or near water flow having the higher concentrations of bb.

That said, if my assumption you only changed out the filter is correct, then the bb populations thru out the rest of the tank are still in place. As the bb population is in a dynamic balance with the ammonia and nitrite amounts you may have a brief "spike". You may have removed a portion of the total bb population and therefore upset the balance until the bb can repopulate. One way to mitigate this effect might be to stop feeding for a few days as this should decrease the total amount of ammonia load while the bb repopulate.

Water changes being another way to mitigate any spike issues.

Good luck
 
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arwen said:
How does it sound if I have traces of no3, does that mean my water is fully cycled?

Is it possible to skip the measuring of no.2 since there is no3 presence...

Cheers
Click to expand...

1) "Traces" is not an actual number. Please post the actual nitrate levels. However to answer your question, since many people leave near farm land and since farmers use fertilizer, many people have low levels of nitrate in their drinking water.

One needs to measure nitrates and determine a) that it is more than is in the drinking water and b) that it's increasing. That will be an indicator of a tank that is cycling. However, fully cycled tanks should have zero ammonia and zero nitrites as well, which is why all 3 should be measured at the same time.

2) Seeing a reading for no3, does not mean there is no no2 present. New tanks or tanks with new filters should be tested to prove the metrics of all 3 (including ammonia.)
 
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Thanks everyone for sharing, was a bit tied up with water change these couple of days. Finally get some time to update

Hi Skjl147, yup you are right I agree with you having said benificial bacteria are free flowing in the water, not containing strictly on the filter compartments itself. That's actually an advantage for me. Have used new media, new sump, old Tank set up. The cycling took almost 4 weeks. It seems after trying the chemical way, the good old traditional water change is the way to go still. Grabbing your good luck & keeping my fingers crossed, thanks!

Hi Drstrangelove,

Can see where you are coming from, that's a nice insight of no.3 presence even without the initial cycle indeed. Guess I'm too fixated with no.3 that I've overlooked other conditions. Will look into that from here, thanks!

Hi jaws7777,

The spike & the adding is such a big ouch, hopefully I can work on these 2, before any more causalities, thanks!

Lastly latest measurement taken is
nh3/4 is at 0ppm
No.3 at 5ppm

Livestock looks happy, thanks for all advices!
 
arwen said:
benificial bacteria are free flowing in the water
Click to expand...

Hello; Just want to be a bit more clear on the location of the bb. While it seems very likely there is some mechanism by which a portion of the bb are in the water itself, it is my understanding the larger part will be affixed to some surface in a tank. This is apparently why water changes (WC) do not upset the tank cycle as little of the bb are removed.
My contention that the bb should be found on surfaces around water flow is an assumption on my part. I think this assumption fits within the information available that I am aware of. I have not seen any contrary evidence so far.

As to how the bb get seeded into a new tank set up is something I have considered. Two mechanisms come to mind. One I think more likely is that the bb are very common and likely are carried in the air in some form. Maybe a spore.
The other may be in the tap water. This may be a bit less likely unless the chemicals used to treat tap water do not kill the bb. I am not sure of this.
I do know I can boil lettuce in water, set it aside for a few days open to the air and have a nice infusoria culture.

Of course the better way to seed a new tank is solid material from an established tank.
 
skjl47 said:
Hello; Just want to be a bit more clear on the location of the bb. While it seems very likely there is some mechanism by which a portion of the bb are in the water itself, it is my understanding the larger part will be affixed to some surface in a tank. This is apparently why water changes (WC) do not upset the tank cycle as little of the bb are removed.
My contention that the bb should be found on surfaces around water flow is an assumption on my part. I think this assumption fits within the information available that I am aware of. I have not seen any contrary evidence so far.

As to how the bb get seeded into a new tank set up is something I have considered. Two mechanisms come to mind. One I think more likely is that the bb are very common and likely are carried in the air in some form. Maybe a spore.
The other may be in the tap water. This may be a bit less likely unless the chemicals used to treat tap water do not kill the bb. I am not sure of this.
I do know I can boil lettuce in water, set it aside for a few days open to the air and have a nice infusoria culture.

Of course the better way to seed a new tank is solid material from an established tank.
Click to expand...

Hello yup the equation does not stay fixed in many cases as there are a few variations that determines the results. The whole bulk of beneficial bacterias stays in the media compartment registered .

For me, the seeding portion was done with the free flowing bacterias in the tank water. Perhaps that explains the longer than usual duration of effective cycling.

Just tested the water for nh3/4 earlier, it came back as 0.25ppm - that means water change for me yet again. Looks like this is gonna take a while. On a lighter note, 0ppm nh3/4 is definitely well worth it, thanks for the valuable pointers!
 
Here an update from morning

IMG_3493.JPG

Which range does it seems like for you, seems like 1ppm for me.

Thanks
 
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