Oscar necrotic tissue… help please?

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JSlead

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Oct 17, 2020
23
3
8
50
Have you tested your water?
Yes
If yes, what is your ammonia?
0
If yes, what is your nitrite?
0
If yes, what is your nitrate?
20
If I did not test my water...
  1. ...I recognize that I will likely be asked to do a test, and that water tests are critical for solving freshwater health problems.
Do you do water changes?
Yes
What percentage of water do you change?
41-50%
How frequently do you change your water?
Every week
If I do not change my water...
  1. ...I recognize that I will likely be recommended to do a water change, and water changes are critical for preventing future freshwater health problems.
Hello Monster Keepers,

I have a very serious issue and I’m hoping someone has some ideas for me.

It’s a LONG tale, I will try to be concise.

This Oscar is about 2 years old; I bought him at about 2” long and now he’s almost a foot long. Beautiful fish, excellent health, wonderful personality. Eats enthusiastically every day (until this event).

About two weeks ago his behavior changed. He was stressed, hiding, wouldn’t eat. Very unusual for him. He NEVER sulks or pouts.

In the next few days, out of nowhere, he got this huge swelling growth of the left jaw/cheek. It got so large that it was visible both inside and outside the mouth, and his mouth was stuck open. It looked awful. He also had a red open sore on his inner jawline.

Then, it “burst” for lack of a better term. There was now an open sore/wound in his mouth and lip area, and some open bloody sores on the left cheek below his eye. The eye started to bulge out as well. At this point, some tissue started to push out of his skin at the chin area. It was red and stringy; I thought it was some sort of parasite, so I treated with General Cure (which seemed to do nothing) and salt.

Over the next few days the problems swapped- the swelling went down, and his face shape went back to normal. But the sores and dead tissue got MUCH worse. Absolutely gruesome. There are strings of dead white skin hanging off his lip and mouth, inside and out. It’s awful.

This whole time I’ve been researching like crazy and consulting any experts I can find (there are no fish vets in my state). I have landed on the diagnosis of a bacterial infection; probably columnaris. So, I am treating with Kanaplex and Jungle Fungus Clear (Nitrofurazole) and an aggressive dose of aquarium salt (1 tbsp per gallon, as recommended by Aquarium Co-Op).

Yesterday I administered the second dose of those, and I do believe I have knocked out the root infection.

THE QUESTION:
What do I do about all this dead tissue on the fish? He has some white skin peeling off his mouth and lip, a very gross mass of flesh loose inside his cheek (interfering with his eating), and the outer cheek area under his eye is all puffy dead white skin, with fuzzy mold growing on it. What can I do? Anything? Let it eventually slough off?

Some notes: it’s a 90gal tank and I have been treating the entire thing. I do have a hospital tank but unfortunately it’s full of fish I am growing out.

Two tankmates: a Jack Dempsey (7”) and a Gourami (4”). Both seem fine and exhibit no symptoms. But the Jack is refusing food.

Water tests are coming back perfect. However I do wonder if I will crash the cycle with all these meds. I’ll test after water change tomorrow. PH is steady at 8. Water comes from a well and is pretty hard (KH and GH are somewhat high) so I also have an RO system and 1/3 of incoming water is RO.

Any ideas or input? Has anyone dealt with dead flesh on a live fish? Thank you all.

~JS

WARNING- this pic is awful. Not for the faint of heart.

9299A64B-DD63-4C35-803C-112D9FABE52A.jpeg
 
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Reactions: tlindsey
It looks like Columnaris based on the swollen lips and how fast this has progressed. Maybe duanes duanes can offer some advice but my guess would be to euthanize.
 
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If this is Columnaris (and it looks like it may be), you will need an antibiotic effective against Gram Negative bacteria.
But usually when the jaw has atrophied that much, it is a losing battle, and euthanasia might be the best and most humane route.
And when other fish start hovering and refusing food in the tank, this is a beginning symptom of early Columnaris onset on them.
You do not state tank temp?
Water temps above 82"F make Columnaris bacteria more virulent, so if it is up there slowly lowering it may be useful to the survivors.
On a side note, I don't consider 20ppm nitrate healthy for oscars at a pH of 8, my suggestion would be to double (or triple) water changes enough to bring nitrate down to 10 ppm or less.
 
Thanks for the replies. As I stated, I DID treat with antibiotics (Kanaplex) so hopefully that’s knocked out. If that has been effective and the columnaris is killed off; can the skin on the jaw heal up? And on the cheek area?

He is active and eating (but not as much as before).

Temps: it was 80° before this; once I determined it might be columnaris I reduced to 75°.

~JS
 
One of the reasons Amazonian (fish from east of the Andes) seem so susceptible to acute diseases like Columnaris, and other chronic diseases like HITH, is that these bacteria prefer water with a pH of 7.5 and above.
And fish from east of the Andes rarely experience this high type pH, so have not evolved strong resistance to these bacterial species.
Amazonia is known for soft, low mineral content, low pH conditions where Columnaris and HITH have a hard time surviving, much less reproducing.
Your JD has evolved for those conditions, but your Oscar has not, and it is why we see so many with HITH riddled oscars in the higher pH waters found in many places in the US, and especially in tanks where nitrates are allowed to creep into the 20 ppm and higher range.
High nitrate conditions are a conducive soup for these bacteria to proliferate.
 
One of the reasons Amazonian (fish from east of the Andes) seem so susceptible to acute diseases like Columnaris, and other chronic diseases like HITH, is that these bacteria prefer water with a pH of 7.5 and above.
And fish from east of the Andes rarely experience this high type pH, so have not evolved strong resistance to these bacterial species.
Amazonia is known for soft, low mineral content, low pH conditions where Columnaris and HITH have a hard time surviving, much less reproducing.
Your JD has evolved for those conditions, but your Oscar has not, and it is why we see so many with HITH riddled oscars in the higher pH waters found in many places in the US, and especially in tanks where nitrates are allowed to creep into the 20 ppm and higher range.
High nitrate conditions are a conducive soup for these bacteria to proliferate.

Again, I thank you for the valuable information. I will endeavor to get the nitrates down. I do have lower nitrates in my larger tank (125) which has a larger Oscar and a couple other cichlids in it. (No, I have not cross-contaminated anything between these tanks).

Still wondering your thought on this: if I *have* knocked out the columnaris as I hope, do you think he can regrow the skin in the previously infected areas? I’ve seen some pretty nasty scrapes over the years that healed nicely on various fish. And should I be doing anything concerning the white obviously dead skin on him now?

I really want to save this fish if at all possible. His activity level these past few days has been excellent, and he just ate again for the third time today (small amounts, but he’s back to being hungry!)

Thanks again,
 
In an artificial fish tank environment being fed fish pellets that can't escape, your Oscar can live a long life without a bottom jaw.
 
In an artificial fish tank environment being fed fish pellets that can't escape, your Oscar can live a long life without a bottom jaw.
His jaw is intact, and his mouth is working just fine. But his skin on the left is all necrotic and peeling. I hope he can grow it back. Still waiting to hear if anyone has any insight on this.

I’m wondering if there’s anything I can do. It seems like this puffy white dead skin needs to be removed but I have no idea what I should do.

~JS
 
You can drip or dab betadine gel, acriflavine or any anti fungal medication - but use undiluted so you don't have to dose the whole tank. Net the fish and apply out of water while in net. Hold it head down so gravity works with you being very careful not to get into gills. Any fungus will get stained. Shouldn't need to reapply again.

If it's already improving, you can just wait.
 
You can drip or dab betadine gel, acriflavine or any anti fungal medication - but use undiluted so you don't have to dose the whole tank. Net the fish and apply out of water while in net. Hold it head down so gravity works with you being very careful not to get into gills. Any fungus will get stained. Shouldn't need to reapply again.

If it's already improving, you can just wait.

thank you!

I do think he’s improving. He ate some frozen bloodworms and several pellets eagerly this morning.

As for the dead skin area (left cheek, below the eye- thankfully the eye is fine), it’s white and puffy, with gray fuzz (mold?). Definitely dead tissue on there. I am wondering if there’s some way to remove it safely. If I net him, will it just rub off? I am hoping someone has dealt with this before.

I have been treating with anti-fungal for several days (Jungle Fungus Clear, which contains Nitrofurazole) and another (final) dose later today. Also I’m running a pretty aggressive salt dose right now. All that sound good? Or should I still look for the anti-fungal you mentioned?

Thanks.

~JS
 
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