Other Ways of Curing Spironucleous

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Mr. Allgood

Jack Dempsey
MFK Member
Feb 16, 2012
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Iowa
I cured 30+ flowerhorns with metro flakes from kens in 1 month. It has been 6 months since and all fish are in top notch health. I have used the metro flakes to clear up many issues in many other species of fish as well. No sterility issues and no deaths.

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Treat tank water with Metronidazole, or Clout.

A metro bath does nothing other than waste money and make you water sugary. Metro is only effective when fed. And it is 100% safe. Just try not to touch it too much. Prolonged exposure to metro will make your body build a tolerance to it which can be a bad thing if you ever need it to fight sickness in the future

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Mr. Allgood - while it is true that with Metronidazole if at all possible it is best to get the meds directly into the gut of the fish via feed, fish are also capable of uptaking many substances into their bloodstream, via their gills - including Metronidazole. This is a simple scientific fact that has been proven by those who are considered experts in their field. With regards to the treatment of fish, it is also not 100% safe, if dosed incorrectly, or if used for prolonged periods.
It's been stated by at least one researcher that excessive use of metronidazole can cause organ damage in fish.

"In fish, an excessive use of metronidazole can damage kidneys and other internal organs.(Bassleer, 1983)"
 
Mr. Allgood - while it is true that with Metronidazole if at all possible it is best to get the meds directly into the gut of the fish via feed, fish are also capable of uptaking many substances into their bloodstream, via their gills - including Metronidazole. This is a simple scientific fact that has been proven by those who are considered experts in their field. With regards to the treatment of fish, it is also not 100% safe, if dosed incorrectly, or if used for prolonged periods.
It's been stated by at least one researcher that excessive use of metronidazole can cause organ damage in fish.[/QUOTE]
They cannot absorb enough metro thru their gills to be effective. I have spent $100s to discover this on my own. Excessive use of any medication will cause organ damage so yes, you are correct. It is only 100% safe when used with competency. Do not feed your fish any medication for over a month.

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FYI ........


Metro applied via feed should only be done based on the fishes weight, and should never be fed for 30 days straight.


Bassleer (1983) recommended metronidazole (Flagyl) as an effective drug for the treatment of hexamitiasis and spironucleosis with a dosage of 500 mg/100 l of water for a 3-day period. Stoskopf (1988) recommended 10 mg of metronidazole mixed into 1.0 g of food given to fish for 5 days.

Dr. Edward J Noga suggests

1. Bath

a. Add 19mg/gallon and treat for 3 hours. Repeat every other day for 3 treatments.

2. Prolonged Immersion

a. Add 25mg/gallon and treat once daily for a total of 3 times.
b. Add 95mg/gallon and treat every other day for three days.

3. via feed

25 mg/Kg of body weight/day for 5 to 10 days, or 100 mg/kg of body weight for 3 days. Retreat once if required.



Dr. Ruth Francis-Floyd et al recommend feeding 50 mg/kg of body weight for 5 consecutive days, or via a bath at a concentration of 5 mg/l every other day for a total of 3 treatments.



These are not some random postings by joe blow hobbyist on some fish forum. These recommendations including dosage rates that have been used sucessfully in Metronidazole baths, were given by some of the leading authorities on aquatic medicine in the world.


Dr. Gerald Bassleer, is one of the leading international fish pathologists and has been active for more than 30 years in the international fish trade. As a biologist he specialised in fish diseases (ichthyophathology) while studying at various universities (Antwerp/Belgium, Maracay/Venezuela, Athens/Georgia/USA, Stiling/Scotland and Stuttgart-Hohenheim/Germany). In addition to his scientific activities he worked for major wholesalers in Belgium, USA, The Netherlands and Germany.


Dr. Edward J. Noga, MS, DVM, is a highly respected professor of aquatic medicine and immunology, that has been published approx 150 times in related papers/journals. His lab at NC State University specializes in the study of infectious diseases of finfish and shellfish. His book, Fish Disease: Diagnosis and Treatment is the go to "health" book for every serious fish keeper and aquatuc DVM on the planet.


Dr. Ruth Francis-Floyd MS, DVM, is a highly respected Certified Fish Pathologist, and Professor and Director of the Aquatic Animal Health program at the University of Florida. Dr. Ruth has probably seen, and treated more cases of Spironucleus/Hexamita than everyone on MFK put together, as for many years she was the go to person for the commercial fish farmers in the State of Florida.


On a personal note, I have saved the life of a number of fish infected with Spironucleus using Metronidazole in a bath solution, when those fish were no longer accepting food. IMO it is not the most ideal treatment for Spironucleus, but to state that "They cannot absorb enough metro thru their gills to be effective." or "Metro is only effective when fed.", is based on nothing but ignorance, and I suspect limited experience in the proper manner in which to treat fish that suffer from this ailment.



This discussion is not about Metronidazole, nor am I interested in discussing that subject any further. Feel free to use metro however you see fit.


Cheers!
 
Lots of bad info out there regarding use of metro. Notice the huge difference in dosage you listed??? This is what i have found out from research and personal experience. A metro bath will suppress hex but it will not rid it unless you get lucky when treating a small fish. 95% of the time Metro Must be fed to rid the disease. Metro is an antibiotic. Any antibiotic regiment should last at least two weeks. I don't have time to post a bunch of links backing this up. All I can say is that I have used metro in every possible way and i have spent $100s doing so. The best treatment I have found, 100% cure rate, is kens metro flakes. Feed for 2-4 weeks depending on size of fish. The medicated food says 10 days but like previously stated, any antibiotic regiment should last at least two weeks whether you are a human, pig, or fish. I have bathed fish in metro numerous times with ZERO results. I have used supposedly water soluble metro, metro powder, metro pills, and metro flakes. I only started to see results when coating frozen food with metro powder. I discovered the metro flakes at kens and now that's all I use. Not one single reoccurance. Not one single death. Lots of breeding since.
 
its pretty funny that you are trying to discredit me despite the fact that you said, "My own experience with this treatment ........ so far it's proven to be a life saver, where all other previous 'textbook' methods of treatment for internal parasites have failed, including several days of treating with 500mg Metro per 10 gallons, while feeding Metro soaked food at the same time. (fish was chewing & spitting, but was eating some food twice a day)"
But wait whats this....? "On a personal note, I have saved the life of a number of fish infected with Spironucleus using Metronidazole in a bath solution, when those fish were no longer accepting food. IMO it is not the most ideal treatment for Spironucleus, but to state that "They cannot absorb enough metro thru their gills to be effective." or "Metro is only effective when fed.", is based on nothing but ignorance, and I suspect limited experience in the proper manner in which to treat fish that suffer from this ailment."
So which is it guy? Seems you'd rather appear to know all then actually give out good info....
 
Mr. Allgood ........... you discredit yourself, sir, is there really a need for me to continue to point out the obvious?

Have you never experienced, or heard of an antibiotic that didn't work, only to try & have another "different" medication that did work? Happens all the time with pathogens, and fish, humans, etc. Medical doctors switch medications up all the time if they don't see results in their initial treatment. I never once stated that Metronidazole when used correctly does not work, but in that instance it did not work, hence the reason I switched things up & tried something outside the box. I have personally seen hundreds of cases where Metro in a bath treatment resolved internal parasite issues, with no reoccurring bouts, so for you to state that it does not work, period, can only be based on ignorance. This isn't my first rodeo, I've been in this game a very long time.


If you feel that you have more experience than the DVM's posted above, please share with the fellow members your real life name, and real life credentials so that we may read all of the various peer reviewed journals that you have been published in over the past 20 years.

FYI - Metronidazole disrupts the DNA of the protozoan ultimately killing it, and there is no need to feed it for 2 straight weeks to eradicate Spironucleus vortens from a fishes system. If you have proof otherwise, please feel free to supply your references.

Otherwise ........
 
@RD.

FYI ........


Metro applied via feed should only be done based on the fishes weight, and should never be fed for 30 days straight.


Bassleer (1983) recommended metronidazole (Flagyl) as an effective drug for the treatment of hexamitiasis and spironucleosis with a dosage of 500 mg/100 l of water for a 3-day period. Stoskopf (1988) recommended 10 mg of metronidazole mixed into 1.0 g of food given to fish for 5 days.

Does it talk about a secure method to get metro dissolved in the water?, I'd like to know it because metro do not get properly dissolved in water.

IMO I think it is better to force it directly into fish gut.

When my fish got sick I dosed metro directly to water in the tank per almost two weeks with no results, I think doing it only created resistence to metro. Seeing no results I decided to force it into fish gut and still had no results I think it was because the bug had already created a resistence for the mentioned before.

Maybe if I had dosed it directy into fish gut since the beginning I would have gotten better results.

What do you guys think about this?.
 
How did you does it Armand? With food, with a probe? Solo, diluted in water?

Quantiies?Days you repeated the procedure?
 
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