P. scalare red-shoulder "Rio Manacapuru" non-wild morphology?

[andyroo]

I see photos of F7 that seem to have lost none of their morphological traits - am I misinformed? Fibbed-to?
If so, are they erring into "affordable" range?

 

[andyroo]

I'm told this/these are F7 from wild, fourth breeding from this guy (acquired at F3). Considering how every other fish seems to fade with from-wild generation, I'm... skeptical. I might expect some fade from line-breeding, too.

 

[altums85]

Been trying to find some quality ones that has and maintain that deep orange red color for years but its been hard. Seems like all the quality ones are in the UK. Closes ones are the st Isabelle angels. But their colors do fade over time

 

[ryansmith83]

If the red color is a genetic trait I don’t see why it would fade as long as the lines are kept pure. Rotkeil severums are supposedly a naturally-occurring fish but I have some that have been tank-bred for 15 years and they still produce juveniles with bright red necks.

 

[dogofwar]

I think your skepticism is based on the misunderstanding that wild-type morphological characteristics that are attractive to hobbyists becomes "watered down" through captive breeding generations... where an F1 fish is less colorful than an a wild one... and an F2 fish is less colorful than an F1 one, etc.

I doesn't work that way and, in the case of angelfish, often just the opposite. Selective breeding - intentional or otherwise, actually starting with which fish are pulled from the wild and exported - can enhance hobbyist-desired characteristics.

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I'm told this/these are F7 from wild, fourth breeding from this guy (acquired at F3). Considering how every other fish seems to fade with from-wild generation, I'm... skeptical. I might expect some fade from line-breeding, too.

 

[andyroo]

Certainly, D dogofwar , but you would agree with me that (artificial) selection works both ways & without some care for line/inbreeding, poorer qualities persisting (contrary to wild/evolutionary processes) etc., the quality of wild traits can and often does fade. P.altum apparently loses those crisp lines within a generation or two, farmed silver arowana are considered lesser etc.

Now, to counter my own thought and bolster yours, last week I went to the big-city (first time since COVID) and found some lovely high-body angels that some part-time breeder has either lucked-out or actively cultured from the usual local "muddy" stubby stock. It took some clever network, and I brought home four