Philosophy Time! Mono/Ocell Hybrids, Breeding, and Other Burning Questions

[heatherbeast]

After posting pics of my first pbass in the media subforum, and getting a a final confirmation that (s)he's a hybrid from the sharp eyes on here. Since I've been mostly lurking the past year now, I've seen tons of threads where an excited poster pops up a picture of a pbass that they picked up from the LFS. Generally, the seller doesn't or can't provide information regarding the origin of the pickup, and MOST of the time it seems like the ID winds up being 'farmie' or a mono/ocell hybrid. I have a MILLION questions now, though, ha ha.

Why DO we see so many hybrids? Is there an advantage to creating them this way? Are they healthier? Are they sterile, thus disabling hobbyists from producing bass themselves?

When someone uses the phrase farmie on here, are they referring to wild-caught, farm-raised fish, or are they referring to farm bred and raised hybrids?

Whether or not hybrids of other cichlids (and other fish) should be bred is a hot topic for debate in other hobbyist circles, but how does that apply here? Is the attitude more one of indifference or true dislike? Provided that the hybrids actually are fertile, do you know of anyone who has tried breeding them with each other, or crossing back to either Monos or Ocells? Would they bother? Would it be looked down upon, I wonder?

Will love to see what folks think.

 

[haynchinook334]

Farmed raised cichla are mass produced, thus giving them a washed out look. Brothers are breeding with sisters mothers cousin family fathers giving them inbred status. Not pure and more prone to trouble down the way. Monos and ocells are the most commen cichla out there and are the easier ones to breed. But there are some farms out there that select breed there monos and ocells keeping the line pure.

Don't get me wrong, there are some good looking hybrid. Florida has spangled ocells mixed with a dash of Negro. Hawaii has some Guyana ocells mixed with mono. Singapore has the mono X orinos. Puerto Rico has negros x mono x ocells. There are more places that have wild hybrids, but the farmed raised ones dont do it for me.


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[johno27]

My big guy is most likely a farmie I love him just as much as my wild orinos. If you raise 4-5 LFS farmies you will probably get at least one good looking bass. Strange how he has developed some spangling in his anal fin almost like there is a little kel in him. He is 18" or so and I wouldn't call him washed out but I have to put my hands in the tank and he has bitten people before

 

[fish junkie]

truth be told most people dont give very good ids there are long term cichla keepers on here these folks have the greater chance to identify a species they have the experience of watching there fish grow from a baby to an adult they remember the different phases there fish have had as they grow and change colors watch the bodies take an adult cichla appearance if you want an accurate id those are the people you ask .
Johno 27 i think your fish is a mono, occelaris seem to stay more yellowish in the face and body just my opinion either way hes cool and looks mad look at a picture of hulons big female occel then you will see what i mean

 

[bassinmike85]

Farmed raised cichla are mass produced, thus giving them a washed out look. Brothers are breeding with sisters mothers cousin family fathers giving them inbred status. Not pure and more prone to trouble down the way. Monos and ocells are the most commen cichla out there and are the easier ones to breed. But there are some farms out there that select breed there monos and ocells keeping the line pure.

Don't get me wrong, there are some good looking hybrid. Florida has spangled ocells mixed with a dash of Negro. Hawaii has some Guyana ocells mixed with mono. Singapore has the mono X orinos. Puerto Rico has negros x mono x ocells. There are more places that have wild hybrids, but the farmed raised ones dont do it for me.


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i have a question..so when us cichla keepers buy a batch of 2" cichla grow them out and get a breeding pair, the fry will be considered inbred?

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[fish junkie]

yes they will

 

[heatherbeast]

Hayn, I see your point about inbreeding affecting colors, that does make a lot of sense. And the comment about breeding between batchmates most likely being inbreeding seems like a very real possibility, since they will have likely been collected at the same location and time. Breeding hybrids definitely sounds like it's not something that should be propagated by hobbyists themselves. I've got another batch of 3 farmies. They will be raised well, but I'm no longer entertaining any breeding ideas. I am not sure anyone, at least once they are informed, would go forward with doing something like that! The time and money seems better spent on more exotic varieties....

Which brings me to another set of questions regarding wild-caught. I know that several South American countries have banned export of certain species of pbass -- is this a conservation issue? Are some of the species threatened? I'd love to sell off two of this current batch I'm growing once they get larger, and replace them with an orino and kelberi, but I also worried about "the bigger picture" when it comes to fish that aren't easily available (I'm thinking about fire eel exploitation, which I didn't find out until AFTER I picked up my darling Noodleface).

PS: Johno, thanks for the hybrid love. I definitely understand how they get people into the hobby.

 

[johno27]

I have raised probably half a dozen pure monos he is deffinitly not a pure mono head shape is all wrong and he looked nothing like a mono as a juvie. He also has his yellow moments his color varies greatly from day to day and his mood. bottom line is that it is very difficult to ID cichla with no collection data

 

[rjkz28]

i have a question..so when us cichla keepers buy a batch of 2" cichla grow them out and get a breeding pair, the fry will be considered inbred?

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yes, so the best thing to do its get a some from different vendors. youll have a better chance of them not being from the same batch.

 

[haynchinook334]

yes, so the best thing to do its get a some from different vendors. youll have a better chance of them not being from the same batch.

Not true to some point. It's good to get different sizes and from different vendors as well.

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