Possible Parasite Issue with New Severum?

[HumuhumuFan]

Have you tested your water?

Yes

If yes, what is your ammonia?

0

If yes, what is your nitrite?

0

If yes, what is your nitrate?

~5

If I did not test my water...

1. ...I recognize that I will likely be asked to do a test, and that water tests are critical for solving freshwater health problems.

Do you do water changes?

Yes

What percentage of water do you change?

21-30%

How frequently do you change your water?

Every week

If I do not change my water...

1. ...I recognize that I will likely be recommended to do a water change, and water changes are critical for preventing future freshwater health problems.

Good afternoon, all. I recently (last week) setup a 29g as a growout tank for a severum and jack dempsey that will be going in a larger tank later this summer. I used a bag of ceramic filter media from my well established 55g community tank's filter.

The JD is eating fine and seems to be doing great. The severum seems to spit out all of the flake foods I've tried. He only swallows frozen brine shrimp. Today I noticed a white, stringy poo. I know this is a classic sign of internal parasite issues, but with fish this small I'm not sure if that's normal or not. Both fish are about an inch long.

 

[tlindsey]

Good afternoon, all. I recently (last week) setup a 29g as a growout tank for a severum and jack dempsey that will be going in a larger tank later this summer. I used a bag of ceramic filter media from my well established 55g community tank's filter.

The JD is eating fine and seems to be doing great. The severum seems to spit out all of the flake foods I've tried. He only swallows frozen brine shrimp. Today I noticed a white, stringy poo. I know this is a classic sign of internal parasite issues, but with fish this small I'm not sure if that's normal or not. Both fish are about an inch long.

Yeah sounds like internal parasites.

 

[HumuhumuFan]

Cool, I've got some PraziPro on hand so I will treat with that and monitor.

 

[neutrino]

That's really a bad tank to try to keep both fish in, even as a grow out tank. It's not about water volume, filtration, or water changes-- neither species likes small quarters, and either one can turn aggressive when they feel crowded, even as comparatively small fish. Dempseys are territorial in the first place, more aggressive than typical severums, and if I was going to keep them together (which I wouldn't), the only way I'd do it is in a 6 ft. tank-- or 75 gal as a short term minimum while they were something like 2-4 inches. Unless the Dempsey is a good bit smaller, pretty good odds it's stressing the severum in that situation, which would be my first suspicion for the problem. With many species of cichlids only two in a tank can be a problem anyway, even in 4 ft tanks, and imo the odds for these particular two would be lower than average for that situation.

...What fools a lot of people about one fish stressing another is they often don't see it because it happens at night or while they're not in the room.

 

[neutrino]

Exhibit A for JDs with less aggressive individuals or species, sometimes even while they're small. And this is in a much larger tank than you've got them in:

Mean little JD | MonsterFishKeepers.com

 

[neutrino]

...And I'm going easy on you, wait till duanes sees this...

 

[HumuhumuFan]

That's really a bad tank to try to keep both fish in, even as a grow out tank. It's not about water volume, filtration, or water changes-- neither species likes small quarters, and either one can turn aggressive when they feel crowded, even as comparatively small fish. Dempseys are territorial in the first place, more aggressive than typical severums, and if I was going to keep them together (which I wouldn't), the only way I'd do it is in a 6 ft. tank-- or 75 gal as a short term minimum while they were something like 2-4 inches. Unless the Dempsey is a good bit smaller, pretty good odds it's stressing the severum in that situation, which would be my first suspicion for the problem. With many species of cichlids only two in a tank can be a problem anyway, even in 4 ft tanks, and imo the odds for these particular two would be lower than average for that situation.

...What fools a lot of people about one fish stressing another is they often don't see it because it happens at night or while they're not in the room.

So far the only aggression I've seen is from severum to JD, but even that has subsided and was more bark than bite. Just the occasional chase with no contact made. I check in on them from outside the room often. I appreciate the caution. If things get testy I can setup another tank.

 

[duanes]

The realty I see here goes way beyond simple aggression.

Water parameters are at the opposite ends of the spectrum for each species, so trying to keep them in the same tank, if the tank water perimeters lean one way or the other, diseases should be expected.

Jack dempsey's are a hard water, high ph water species, and are evolved to resist certain hard water disease causing bacteria.


Severums are a soft water, low pH species, and have built resistance to soft water bacteria, but not hard water type.

Some people believe that a number of generations in aquariums can negate these problems, but.......
water permitters tolerances have evolved over millions of years, so believing even 100 years of living in aquariums would change evolution is quite short sighted.

And.....then....
if you add stress such as aggression to evolutionary adverse water parameters to the mix, and in a tiny tank where there is no escape from aggression, you run into very dangerous immune system problems.

 

[abominus]

The realty I see here goes way beyond simple aggression.

Water parameters are at the opposite ends of the spectrum for each species, so trying to keep them in the same tank, if the tank water perimeters lean one way or the other, diseases should be expected.

Jack dempsey's are a hard water, high ph water species, and are evolved to resist certain hard water disease causing bacteria.
View attachment 1541252

Severums are a soft water, low pH species, and have built resistance to soft water bacteria, but not hard water type.
View attachment 1541251
Some people believe that a number of generations in aquariums can negate these problems, but.......
water permitters tolerances have evolved over millions of years, so believing even 100 years of living in aquariums would change evolution is quite short sighted.

And.....then....
if you add stress such as aggression to evolutionary adverse water parameters to the mix, and in a tiny tank where there is no escape from aggression, you run into very dangerous immune system problems.

View attachment 1541251

neutrino was right

 

[FINWIN]

Try separating the sev and hold off medicating right away. If the white poo stops it's stress. Could also be the intestine shedding through stress too, looks like white poop. If it doesn't clear up after a couple of days, start the medication.

Darker substrate, some hiding plants. Nice, cool and calm. No excessively bright light.