Questions about keeping red tailed catfish

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Hi there, long time no see everyone .


Well, i might as well come out about my real reasons for joining this forum. My dream is to one day own and keep a red tailed catfish and look after it really well. I intend on doing a large indoor pond project within the next 2-3 years to house such a catfish, and so i decided its best to start doing research on these sorts of things far in advance to help prepare myself the best for such a project.

I trust planetcatfish's info a lot, but even with all of their information on keeping RTC, i am still left with many questions...The link to planetcatfishes RTC info page;

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=305


a. I have read hugely varying estimates on how large RTC grow to, from 3ft long to 6ft long. Some people say that they are slow growers, while others say they are some of the fastest growing catfish in the hobby.
So my first question is how fast do RTC grow on average? Do they grow quicker when juveniles, and if so, at what size does their growth begin to slow down at?

b. "In the wild the fish eat fallen fruit, crustaceans and fish"

What sorts of fruit would an RTC eat in the wild and what fruits are safe to feed it? What are the best/most suitable types of fish and crustaceons to feed an RTC? What percentage should stuff fruit fill in an RTC's diet ideally?

c. In the planetcatfish article it talks about choosing furniture carefully so the RTC does not swallow it. But i am sure these catfish do prefer certain types of furniture, should the pond be decorated sparsely or a lot? Are boulders/rocks more prefered than large peices of driftwood/bodwood etc? Is a sand substrate good for an RTC tank?

d. They say the fish is territorial and should not be kept with tankmates unless a very large aquarium is provided. My dream would be to have 2 RTC and a few other large catfish of similar size (3-4ft long), to prevent conflict between the fish though what size pond should i aim for ideally? Can RTC even be kept together at all safely? I would want to aim for a peaceful community pond if i were to have more than one fish, if that were posible.

e. I've read that for large active fish, to find the right length the tank/pond should be 4 times the length of the fish, for the width it should be twice the length of the fish, and for the depth it should be 1.5 times the "height" of the fish. Working out what size pond i would need to keep an RTC permanently in is important, but is a problem since people tell me so many different things when it comes to the maximum average size these fish grow to etc.

 

[Superlaz]

First and foremost I commend you for doing your research, not many people do...especially when it comes to this fish.

I think Planetcatfish holds a LOT of useful info, and I use it religiously, but theres only so much it can give.

RTC are not one of the fastest growing cats in the hobby......they are THE fastest. lol....The only Cats that I have seen grow faster are RTC hybrids, and that's due to a phenomenon called Hybrid Rigor.

If you are serious about keeping a couple of thes guys for life, and have the means to provide a large home, I suggest nothing smaller than 8'W x10'L x 4'H. THey are primarily Piscivorous and go for Fish and crustaceans. Don't fool yourself into "mimicking: nature...it'll never happen. We cant fully understand the complexities of inter-connected systems, much less duplicate them. Stick to the basics...good water maintenance and responsible feeding. Im not one of the guys that will feed fruits, instead I feed a mix of Fish Filets, shrimp, and prepared pellets.

The Max size for one of these guys in the wild is reported at 6'. Ive never seen anything bigger than 4' in captivity. In a large tank/pond, chances are that it will hit the 4' sooner than most RTC which level out at 2'-3' in home aquaria....from then on who knows? maybe youll be the first with a couple of 6f footers in your tank...lol.

I say go with sporadic furnishings...not much at all....and with large stones and heavy objects that are dificult to move, and even more difficult to swallow

In my experience they are pretty docile for a large predatory fish....they relatively keep to themselves and just chill and eat until 10"-12"...Ive never had a problem with them under 10". From 10"+ though, they start becoming more active, and this is when those tankmates that they have grown up with, usually become a meal.

Its not aggression as much as it is predation . RTC can be kept together with no problem...you can have them with others in the family such as TSN, and RTC hybrids, and almost if not all in the brachplatystoma family.... Large tankmates like Arowana (full grown), Pacu, CIchla (temensis) etc...amke good tank mates.

Hope this helps, if you have any other questions, go right ahead.

 

[necrocanis]

good info. The only things I would add is that for the furniture when he says hard to swallow, realize that means your rtc will make snacks of anything that they can fit in their mouths. From glass heaters, to medium and small rocks, to other fish and plant decorations. Even the traps on the end of a filter inlet/outlet. So you have to plan accordingly. I use very large stones with all my large catfish. Sand is very acceptable. Just make sure you get a heavy sand that settles quickly or your tank will be cloudy constantly.

Another aspect is growth rates. You wonder how long it will take your rtc to max out and how big he can get. It was addressed but only the max length. I have seen actual photos of 5' rtc from the wild that weighed 150 lbs. I have never seen a confirmed rtc pic of one larger. 3-4' is a definite and very likely size in the home aqauria. Especially in a pond setting. On average I would say that growth varies tremendously. I've kept several to over 2', and I've had a few reach 1' in a year, and 2' in two years. My newest one I've had just shy of 3 1/2 months and he has already hit the 12 inch mark. Granted He's been raised in tanks with vigorous water changes twice per week to keep up with his apetite. I've also slowly adjusted the salinity levels to keep him healthy. His diet is mainly bloodworms when small, then krill, now whole jumbo shrimp, fish fillets, and I wish to feed fruit soon. My other rtcs accepted fruits. Mainly bannanas, and tomatoes. No idea why, but that's what they ate. I also try to catch some live crayfish from time to time. Something of a hunt as they flip rocks to look for them. They are very powerfull. I had a 2' rtc that could push a 20 lbs rock across the bottom of his tank.

Filtration is going to be a major factor. Your fish will never realize his true potential without proper filtration. Sump filters with wet dry work best, but they are difficult to plumb into ponds. Large bio-barrel filters custom made seem to be all the rage and I will be making a total of a 165 gal barrel filter for my rtc pond very soon to meet the growing requirements he will place on the bioneeds of the tank in the future.

 

[TLkmDN]

urrrr i dont quite agree with the size that the other guy sed. i personally keep two 3 foot RTCs with two 2.5 foot TSN and two 2.5 foot knifefish in a 16L by 8W by 5depth and it is just sufficient enough for them not to fight and live in harmony. u wont have problems with the harmony part as long as you introduce all the fish early in their lives. just be wary of SPACEEEEE. my largest RTC grew to 3 feet in like 2 anf a half years so ya....but i admit i used to feed him too much when he was young., my other one doesnt seem to grow half as fast. maybe female? who knows. good luck i have no doubt that ure project will work. it worked for me

 

[ElJefe]

First and foremost I commend you for doing your research, not many people do...especially when it comes to this fish.

....

and it's sad to say my brother went last weekend to the fish store w/o me and he picked up a RTC and a TSN they had jsut got them in the sad thing was that the both only costed $54.00 so any idiot can buy them(my bro included) but he asked me about them and i laughed at him and told him he's in for a surprise b/c he was wanting to put them in with his mbuna tank i said they'd be fine for a month, maybe two....he's worried that they get eaten they are both 4". his largest is a front bout 6".

i told him that in those two months his fish would start thinning out!!
he has a pair of yellow labs in his tank that breed like crazy..i believe( to be taken very lightly) that once they start eating the baby labs that they'll aquire the taste for fish and then it's down hill for his african tank.

good luck, i'll give you a few pointers/lessons learned, b/c i'm sure i'll learn alot over the next few years!!

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Thankyou for the information everyone, i really appreiciate it !
Money for this indoor pond project is not an issue for me, but space is. Right now my two options are...;
a. Knock down garage and build an indoor pond room on what is the garage space and some of the old driveway space (for some weird reason, even though my house is small, i have a lot of driveway space).
b. Wait for a while and see if neighbours decide to sell their place, then buy it.


I'm going to measure up the driveway and garage area to see how much space i could potentionally have to play with exactly first...With the indoor pond project, i would like to aim for something that is at least 16ft long by 8-10 wide and 4ft deep. I will see what i do with the current space i have, if i can opt for an even larger pond i will, although i don't know if i will have to settle for something smaller yet.

Filtration-wise, i was planning on sticking a few huge koi pond filters in to filter the RTC pond. I have a 3200gallon pond in my garden which has a huge koi pond filter measuring 6x2x2ft large and can filter up to 4000gallons. I have no idea how large this indoor pond project thing is going to be yet, but i hope a few of these koi pond filters should be able to do the job filtration-wise.


If i were able to build a pond large enough for a couple of RTC, as far as tankmates are concerned, do Iridescent Sharks make suitable tankmates for RTC?

 

[reefkeep18]

Ya they grow differently depending on how much you are feeding. You should not believer that they will max out any less then 4.3 feet. They will grow a lot slower when they are juveniles and then grow increasingly faster once they start eating fish. Make sure you only put big fish with it as there mouth will get about 4 in horizontally and fit any fish in there mouth that they can when hungry. Start off feeding blood worms and then go to fish this is what I would recommend. I had two, a male and a female the female seemed to grow quicker. I got rid of them when they outgrew my 150 gal, which was when they hit 2 feet. Ive heard they have grow about 4 inches sunce i gave them away about 2 months ago

 

[necrocanis]

Ya they grow differently depending on how much you are feeding. You should not believer that they will max out any less then 4.3 feet. They will grow a lot slower when they are juveniles and then grow increasingly faster once they start eating fish. Make sure you only put big fish with it as there mouth will get about 4 in horizontally and fit any fish in there mouth that they can when hungry. Start off feeding blood worms and then go to fish this is what I would recommend. I had two, a male and a female the female seemed to grow quicker. I got rid of them when they outgrew my 150 gal, which was when they hit 2 feet. Ive heard they have grow about 4 inches sunce i gave them away about 2 months ago

I'd only have to disagree with growth getting faster as they get bigger. They grow slower and slower over time. You have to prepare for a 4+ foot fish in the future because they can live 20+ years, and if properly cared for will grow their entire life. Of course this growth will be minute, but any individual can obtain a large size over a large period of time. Probably 10+ years to hit 3 1/2 foot, and like 20+ years to hit 4 foot. So the truely huge ones in the wild that are 5' are probably 30+ or 40+ years old. One that was over a 100 lbs they counted the rings in their pectoral fin spines and found it to be over 45 years old.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I appologise i haven't been able to post back on this thread in a while, but i really do appreiciate everyone's help and info given to me here .


I really don't mind if RTC live for decades, most of my plecos and my goldfish are expected to live to oevr 20 years, so the RTC will be the same sort of commitment to me in that sense .

I was discussing the big pond project with my fiance the other day on where we could fit a large indoor pond on out property in the future, but my house and garden and stuff is really not that big, so my options are kinda limited when it comes to the size of a big indoor pond.
However, i did come up with the idea of knocking down our garden shed and garage and making them into one large building which would house the pond- the only problem with this is my fiance suspects there could be a big drain that runs right through the centre of the two buildings, which could be a problem. So having a bigger enough pond for an RTC is no way yet assured, and if i cannot have a larger enough pond i will not get an RTC but instead opt for smaller tank busting fish more in the 2-3ft long range etc. But this is still early days yet and there are still numerous other places which could potentially be large enough to hold a massive indoor pond big enough for an RTC, so we will see what happens- to have an RTC would certainly be one of my dream fish, so i am not giving up on this idea anytime soon .
I need to take some more exact measurements of certain potential pond sites on my property still to get a clearer picture of how much space is available to me for such a project. If my neighbour ever put their place up for sale and i was able to buy it, that would definately solve a lot of pond space issues (i live in a semi-detached house, so we would make the two properties into one large one), however obviously there is no guarentee that would ever happen. Hmm...

None the less though, i'm still going to continue my research on keeping RTC. To do a massive indoor pond project and get an RTC would be a massive commitment for me, so i am not taking this idea lightly- i want to make sure i am sure going to have my full heart and motivation into this idea/project when it comes down to the crunch time and i need to put my final decision on the table.
So...


I have some more questions on keeping RTC, mostly with other fish as tank mates ;

a. I have seen many people keeping RTC with TSN, and i also happen to be a big fan of TSN so these are another one of the potential fish i'd like to keep. But after reading this thread and threads like it in the link below, i am quite wary about keeping both RTC and TSN together and with other fish;

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42892


Honestly, how safe is it really to keep RTC and TSN with other fish? I take it that an RTC is not going to grow at the same rate as a TSN, so would say an 14inch RTC actually be safe with an 18inch TSN, or would it likely end up as lunch like the arrowana in the thread above?


b. I quite like Irredescent sharks and i often see many people trying to get rid of this unfortunate commonly sold tankbusting fish. Because i would like to adopt or save as many tankbusting fish for my potential future massive indoor pond, i would like to have some of these shark type catfish.
Based though on my knowledge of other fish, am i right in thinking that these fish like to school or shoal with their own kind? They look like such a fish for some reason to me, although i cannot find much info online on this aspect of their behavior.


Thanks for your time and i appreiciate any info/help/advice you can give me !