raw pink swollen sore on my fish. Help please

[John Rambo]

What the hell is this?! This is the first time Ive been able to photograph this disease. My nitrates are 20 ppm and every thing else is perfect. If you cant tell in the pic, its an open sore, a bit pink, raw, and surrounding tissue is swollen. It is not caused by any trauma from objects or fish bites Some of my fish (breidohri, regani) get it once in a couple months or less and it just goes away. Other fish like my wild umbies, die within 2 days. What is it and what can I do.

 

[justonemoretank]

Please inform us as to your current ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels, tank size, all inhabitants, filtration, water change schedule, and treatments you have attempted, if any.

 

[John Rambo]

My test strip doesnt include ammonia, nitrate is 20-30, nitrite .5 or less, neutral water. 600 gallon tank, bare bottom, 3 fx5s running. 50% or a little more water change every 2 weeks. 1 tble spoon salt per every 5 gallons. The only treatment tried was temp increase to 84.
Inhabitance:
3 festae, 2 synspillum, 2 breidorhi, 2 jds, 1 black nasty, 2 regani, 10 parachromis all around 7-10".
Its alot but my water parameters are never worse than what I typed.

 

[justonemoretank]

The presence of nitrite indicates the tank isn't completely cycled, or the cycle has been interrupted. You should get an ammonia test -- I'm worried what those levels are. Ammonia and nitrites should be zero in a cycled tank.

Do you have a hospital tank or can you put one together that is cycled? I'd get this fish into a hospital tank and treat with an antibiotic because the redness around the area makes me think the open sore has become infected. When water quality isn't optimal, a fish's immune system is weakened, so you need to get him into pristine water and get rid of the infection. Don't use an antibiotic in the main tank, as it will kill all bacteria, including your beneficial bacteria.

As to the cause, I'm not sure. Hopefully someone else will know. However, I do know that any problem is made worse by less-than-perfect water quality, and so you need to figure out what's going on with your biological filter.

 

[Lupin]

John, if I were you, ditch the test strips and invest in API liquid drops. You'll find API liquid drops despite selling at $25 and over, will still be a worthy investment lasting a year. You need to be sure your water parameters were accurately measured otherwise you could simply be looking into the issue in the dark. Check the last four digits printed on the box. Make sure it suggests that the test kit has been manufactured in a year or two.

Good suggestion on getting a hospital tank. There are plenty of antibiotics that could work. I'll try to explain each hoping it'd give the OP a better understanding of his options. The wound does look like bacterial infection. Normally, for open wounds, I'd get a Q-tip or a small wad of cotton and apply iodine solution (Betadine) on it toavoid secondary infections.

Now, for columnaris, this is a gram-negative motile bacteria. It is one of the most common bacterial infections alongside with hemorrhage septicemia (Aeromonas hydrophila). It will always be present in tanks and will strike when the mucous membrane becomes damaged as a result of parasites inflicting the damage such as protozoans like ich and external parasites like fish lice aside from weakened immune system as a result of the stress generated from the presence of these parasites.

To treat columnaris, you need antibiotics that should hit gram-negative bacteria instead of gram-positive bacteria although a broad spectrum bactericide will work. Be warned that almost all antibiotics are potent and can destroy your beneficial bacteria so watch out for your water parameters in case the ammonia and nitrite begin to elevate dangerously. If possible, treat the affected fish in a hospital tank or tub to save your main tank's beneficial bacteria from the trouble. Get a sponge filter and heater. A hospital tank needs not be decorated for hygienic reasons. It should remain barebottom.

Kanamycin, tri sulfa and tetracycline are often recommended for various bacterial infections. All three can be ingested by the fish if we are dealing with internal bacterial infection otherwise simply dose them in the tank. Follow the instructions carefully labeled on the container. Be very careful not to overdose the antibiotics. Tetracycline will not work effectively if your pH is 7.6 or more.

Another antibiotics I'd recommend are the combination of Maracyn (erythromycin) and Maracyn 2 (minocycline). Both meds are heavy duty treatments and may be lethal if overdosed so again, follow instructions carefully however they should be effective against columnaris.

Acriflavine may work but be very careful not to handle it directly with your bare hands as it can stain. This is best used in a hospital tank, not your main tank. Wear gloves as much as possible when handling it.

There's another which I have not tried yet, Tricide Neo but I do not believe there is a bacterial infection common in the aquarium industry that is resistant to this treatment. It may be worth your while although if this may be lethal.

For fungal infections (saprolegnia), I'd go with malachite green. A 0.1% solution which is a drop per gallon may be effective against saprolegnia cases assuming the issue is indeed fungal infection although fungal infections are hard to come by and are often misdiagnosed as bacterial infection, a false perception that has already confused countless number of hobbyists of the issue they are dealing with. Only microscopy can accurately help identify such issue.

 

[John Rambo]

WOW! I have a few of the antibiotics mentioned above and I do have a hospital tank. I guess I need to check out other testers. As far as nitrites being zero, I thought that was near impossible. I do have another fx5 I could use along with the 3 already going. Could my water changes be too big? So far it seems that we came up with a cure for secondary infections, but still no reason for the primary cause. Maybe these are just small gashes that get infected due to stress from an aggressive croud and oportunistic bacteria in the water? dont know, just a guess.
thanks for the help guys, further suggestions welcome.

 

[justonemoretank]

I think you're thinking of nitrate when you say that a 0 reading is almost impossible, because for nitrate, that's absolutely true in freshwater tanks. The nitrate isn't converted to anything, and so we have to remove it through water changes. I try to keep my nitrate under 20 because I'm paranoid of things I cannot see (LOL) but everyone has a different philosophy on this. Either way, though, yes, nitrate is acceptable and will always be present.

The nitrite, which is what you mentioned earlier, is different. It's the product of converted ammonia, and it's still toxic. The nitrite is what is converted into nitrate, so nitrite should be zero in a cycled tank, just like ammonia.

I don't think the water changes are too large. Is your tap water pH the same as your tank's pH, or do you adjust it before you put it in the tank? In either of these cases, you'd most likely be fine, as long as the water was dechlorinated, of course. If the new water is drastically different, chemistry-wise, than the tank water, then this might stress the fish if you did a large enough water change. Conditions in the tank would be constantly fluctuating. But, I doubt this is the case.

And I still don't know what the heck could have caused that initial wound. But, the fact that you say some fish get it and it goes away, but this fish has gotten it and it's worse and infected, makes me want to say just keep your water quality pristine until you pin down the cause of this, and you should be okay. It sounds like the other fish made it through all on their own, due to good tank conditions and their own immune systems.

 

[John Rambo]

I think you're thinking of nitrate when you say that a 0 reading is almost impossible, because for nitrate, that's absolutely true in freshwater tanks. The nitrate isn't converted to anything, and so we have to remove it through water changes. I try to keep my nitrate under 20 because I'm paranoid of things I cannot see (LOL) but everyone has a different philosophy on this. Either way, though, yes, nitrate is acceptable and will always be present.

The nitrite, which is what you mentioned earlier, is different. It's the product of converted ammonia, and it's still toxic. The nitrite is what is converted into nitrate, so nitrite should be zero in a cycled tank, just like ammonia.

I don't think the water changes are too large. Is your tap water pH the same as your tank's pH, or do you adjust it before you put it in the tank? In either of these cases, you'd most likely be fine, as long as the water was dechlorinated, of course. If the new water is drastically different, chemistry-wise, than the tank water, then this might stress the fish if you did a large enough water change. Conditions in the tank would be constantly fluctuating. But, I doubt this is the case.

And I still don't know what the heck could have caused that initial wound. But, the fact that you say some fish get it and it goes away, but this fish has gotten it and it's worse and infected, makes me want to say just keep your water quality pristine until you pin down the cause of this, and you should be okay. It sounds like the other fish made it through all on their own, due to good tank conditions and their own immune systems.

Thanks for the input. I think keeping the water pure is all I can do for now. Ive mde some changes to filtration and hope this will prevent this secondary infection. My best guess is that these fish are stressed due to the constsnt aggression and crouded space, and small scrapes get infected. I might have to say good bye to some fish

 

[dkpate]

You don't think he might have just gotten stuck somewhere for a while? I am posting pics of my D. Gourami who recently got stuck between the glass and a rock....and was stuck until I was able to move the rock in the morning. He tore himself up pretty good trying to get out!