Ray Keepers--- DO YOU RUN A UV on your tank--and why?

[kendragon]

All this talk of UVs and no one mentions UV dosage (mJ/cm^2). Dosage is what determines proper sizing. Dosage will tell you what it will kill. Not wattage. To say all you need is a 40W or 80W without running the numbers for dosage is bad advice. Many advertised sizes and gallons is for general use or for water clarity.
The dosage calculation takes into account chamber volume, efficiency of the bulb, wattage, sleeve dia, bulb length, water clarity, flow rate and the number of bulbs. Multi-bulb units are the most effective because the bulbs are spaced so a pathogen is close to the sleeve no matter where it is in the chamber. Dosage is highest at the sleeve. Big chambers also can handle higher flow rates as most big tank run big pumps.
Bulb quality could affect the price of the unit a lot. Same unit can sell for half the price using chinese bulbs. They are not as hot and degrades very rapidly.

 

[DB junkie]

Most of us raykeepers tend to follow in the footsteps of those that are successfull with them.

Seems to me it might not be a bad idea......

I remember seeing fancy analysises on this kind of stuff, and have already been told flowrate #s that don't even remotely jive here, so maybe it's best to seek advice of the profesionals....... ^^^^

 

[T1KARMANN]

Where the hell are you getting the size you need for a given tank?

I don't care about some free floating algae. Buying a lil bitty couple watt UV isn't gonna do anything but kill algae. I could care less about algae. We're talking about UVs that actually kill the bad stuff.

Here's a link for you.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcatego...rs?green=688A09A9-0F2D-5FC8-B769-FDC633D3BC08

Not real cheap, but then again it is only for a 700 gallon tank.

Bulbs are $104 each if you're wondering what it costs to replace them after the 375 days they're good for.

I am also talking about a UVS not a UVC

it's not about flow rate it's about contact time

I pump 10,000 lph over 4ft long of UVS when you take into account head height and pipe length it's probably pumping 8,000 lph that's still turning over my tank 2.5 x per hour more than enough

You don't need to run ALL your pump flow throw the thing

I do know the difference between UVS and UVC I have been trying to pump it into people's heads for years they are different

If you think they cost $1500 then go buy one if you have a 5-10,000 gal system

A UVS is worked out on flow rate not tank size yes it's better the more tank turn over you get

A 25w is the right size unit when run with a eheim pro3 2080 on a 6x2x2 tank x that tank size by 4 use use 4 x 25w you will get the same results on my 8x6x3 you do the math



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[kendragon]

i was recently told from a manufactuer that slowing down the flow and having bulbs directly accross from one another equals a far better kill rate.i have a 4lamp unit with 4-58w lamps in a square pattern and am told theres little or nothing that would survive passing between the 4 bulbs.he showed me the "calculations of kill rate//dosing,that was quite high but it was all french to me...lol

i also have a 114w unit with 2-57w lamps inline with eachother and never have problems with that tank either.

It's not french...it's greek.
Here a plot for intensity mW. As you can see intensity is highest at the sleeve. As you move away intensity drops. In a multi-bulb analysis the average mW is used (orange band) to calculate dosage. Using anything high would be false or cheaping or cooking the books.
You can also see the the bulbs shine or reflect at each other leaving no room to escape.
This calc was done with 85%T water clarity (pond water). Tanks are usually 90%T (good keepers) and 95%T for swimming pools. This is important because the pathogen can hide behind particles as it passes through the light.

 

[T1KARMANN]

Where the hell are you getting the size you need for a given tank?

I don't care about some free floating algae. Buying a lil bitty couple watt UV isn't gonna do anything but kill algae. I could care less about algae. We're talking about UVs that actually kill the bad stuff.

Here's a link for you.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcatego...rs?green=688A09A9-0F2D-5FC8-B769-FDC633D3BC08

Not real cheap, but then again it is only for a 700 gallon tank.

Bulbs are $104 each if you're wondering what it costs to replace them after the 375 days they're good for.

Just read up on this unit it's a total rip off

If you look at the larger units it's just running two smaller units back to back like I said you could with 4 x 25w

The reason the units you are looking at are so expensive is because they use ballasts a UVS doesn't need that as ones it's started the tube is on 24/7
The units we get in the UK are standard 2 pin tubes with a normal t8 starter motor

The TMC unit is by no means a cheap unit and is used by marine fishkeepers all over the UK in fact I have one unit I have had for over 20 years and it's still going strong I have changed the hose tails sealing ring twice in that time

I used to read loads of people say in the past they don't turn it on 24/7 this is bad for the unit and how well it works as when it's turned off calcium and green build up on the glass sleeve blooming the light from good contact with the water

Some people also say UV lowers the rays immune system I have not found this to be the case as I have bred rays in my tank and sold pups to people without a UV but I did convince them some months later to get one

The damage to the rays I posted all healed up fine on the smaller ray in 3 weeks I'm fairly sure that without the UV that would have got infected

Like I said you can always find a marine keeper giving up and selling his kit so just buy second hand and a well known brand you can get parts for de scale it and you are ready to go at a fraction of the price

A TMC vectron 25 cost £120 new
I just got one for someone for £22 one eBay then a new UV tube £14

Try to get units that take the standard t8 tubes as Arcadia are the only company that make tubes that last 1 year


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[T1KARMANN]

It's not french...it's greek.
Here a plot for intensity mW. As you can see intensity is highest at the sleeve. As you move away intensity drops. In a multi-bulb analysis the average mW is used (orange band) to calculate dosage. Using anything high would be false or cheaping or cooking the books.
You can also see the the bulbs shine or reflect at each other leaving no room to escape.
This calc was done with 85%T water clarity (pond water). Tanks are usually 90%T (good keepers) and 95%T for swimming pools. This is important because the pathogen can hide behind particles as it passes through the light.

View attachment 817800

View attachment 817801

Very interesting

This is why I like the idea of running mine back to back a 4 different units as the water is in contact with the tube less than 1/16 inch apart

The water then smashes into the first unit zapping stuff then it moves to the next unit zapping again and so one by passing throw 5ft of UV everything souls be killed at the end of it

Anything thing to mention on running costs you will fine the UV will warm your tank water depending on the flow rate so some of the cost of running the UV will be save with less use of tank heaters


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[john C]

I run them, on my 480 i run a 36w turbo twist witch needs a new bulb. The good benificial stuff we may not be able to see but i know without it my tank is not as clear and more algae. I think it was T1 that said protect your investment.....the way i look at it now is if i am willing to spend over a grand for a fish i need not to be concern weather it is all that efective and a waste of money just use it and hope it really helps i am not saying i like to throw away my money but for what i have put in this hobby this extra money should not even be a issue

 

[keepinfish]

I run them, on my 480 i run a 36w turbo twist witch needs a new bulb. The good benificial stuff we may not be able to see but i know without it my tank is not as clear and more algae. I think it was T1 that said protect your investment.....the way i look at it now is if i am willing to spend over a grand for a fish i need not to be concern weather it is all that efective and a waste of money just use it and hope it really helps i am not saying i like to throw away my money but for what i have put in this hobby this extra money should not even be a issue

Well put John... I think from what i have heard it WILL help, and when you have some money in your rays, its best to take every measure to keep them healthy.
I dont really have any algae problem, but have had some issues arise i think may not have happened if i was running a UV.

My new UV will be here tomorrow so will be interesting to see if i notice any differences.

 

[DB junkie]

Everyone wants what's best for thier rays.....

Why stop at UV? Isn't Ozone great for rays? Don't most of the high end breeders use it?

Just curious when or where we draw the line?

When keeping such expensive fish you would think most people would start with ideal water like soft acidic amazon water. Instead we all just use whatever comes out of the tap regarless if the PH is 8.8 or above, but yet here we are discussing best care for our rays at any cost? Just an observation...... I'm probobly worse then most in this situation, but IF for years I'm lead to believe it doesn't matter then eventually its taken for granted when maybe in the long run it should matter.

 

[spotfin]

So is there a need to run uv all of time? It seems most fish keepers use uv to kill bacteria and pathogens. Is there a point at which all "bad" things in your tank are eliminated?
This leads to my next question. If rays are always kept in a sterile envirnoment (especially cb pups), will their immune system weaken over time? And the one day where something bad comes along, will it be that much stronger?