Red Head Tapajos breeding - what are they next steps?

[getmethatgeoplease]

We had a pair of Red Heads unexpectedly have babies and we have a total of 4 survivors. We now have another pair that just laid eggs and we watched them as it happened. Should we be taking the eggs out Or the parents with the eggs? Or I guess what should we be doing now? This is our first time so we just want to what’s best for them.

A little more background, the first pair was moved to their own 55 gallon with what fry were left and another female because she was also holding babies in her mouth. We separated the babies so we have the options to switch the parents around so the new pair has the 55 gallon.

Side question, will females take babies away from other females and try to raise them?

Sorry, lots of questions. Just trying to do what’s right for them.

 

[tlindsey]

We had a pair of Red Heads unexpectedly have babies and we have a total of 4 survivors. We now have another pair that just laid eggs and we watched them as it happened. Should we be taking the eggs out Or the parents with the eggs? Or I guess what should we be doing now? This is our first time so we just want to what’s best for them.

A little more background, the first pair was moved to their own 55 gallon with what fry were left and another female because she was also holding babies in her mouth. We separated the babies so we have the options to switch the parents around so the new pair has the 55 gallon.

Side question, will females take babies away from other females and try to raise them?

Sorry, lots of questions. Just trying to do what’s right for them.

I suggest leaving eggs and parents in the aquarium that will give the new parents experience. Never personally heard of female of any cichlid raising fry of another female.

 

[neutrino]

My experience is a geo red head pair cooperates in raising their own. What I have seen is a single female red head try to flirt with a paired up male, but with mine the paired male had made his choice and wasn't interested. This is pretty typical ime, though in other species I have had an occasion or two with pairing fish where the male switches females.

People have different approaches to breeding, whatever the species, so you may get different answers. Variables like size of tank, how it's arranged, what other fish are in the tank, etc, might make a difference.

Personally, with the red heads, I had more than one pair, didn't need hundreds upon hundreds of fry to raise, and didn't try to save every spawn. At some point the parents will leave fry to fend for themselves, which is when I'd remove them to a grow-out tank. Unlike some people, I don't raise fry in little tanks; I've typically used 50s or 55s, but that's just me, what fits my preferences and how I'm set up. A 55 can easily be divided up for different species, generations, etc. Neither do I use sponge filters in fry tanks, I just cover the intakes of my filters with a sponge, bio-bag, etc. My preference, which has it's advantages, but not the only way to do it.

Mine were good at caring for them up to that point, including protecting them in their mouths, making little pits to release them into for brief periods, and similar strategies while the fry mature. Another thing red heads will do, it's both reported and it's what mine did, was parents would take turns, one holds fry while the other eats, then they switch. It's worth seeing these natural behaviors, good experience vs a more artificial approach, at least with fish for which it works-- my opinion.

In the same tank with mine were wild Peru scalare, couple of rotkeil sevs, few congo tetras, an L200 and L260 pleco and, for a while, some guianacara. The geos had no problem raising fry in this tank, with various driftwood, plants, and rocks to provide nesting sites, etc.

 

[getmethatgeoplease]

My experience is a geo red head pair cooperates in raising their own. What I have seen is a single female red head try to flirt with a paired up male, but with mine the paired male had made his choice and wasn't interested. This is pretty typical ime, though in other species I have had an occasion or two with pairing fish where the male switches females.

People have different approaches to breeding, whatever the species, so you may get different answers. Variables like size of tank, how it's arranged, what other fish are in the tank, etc, might make a difference.

Personally, with the red heads, I had more than one pair, didn't need hundreds upon hundreds of fry to raise, and didn't try to save every spawn. At some point the parents will leave fry to fend for themselves, which is when I'd remove them to a grow-out tank. Unlike some people, I don't raise fry in little tanks; I've typically used 50s or 55s, but that's just me, what fits my preferences and how I'm set up. A 55 can easily be divided up for different species, generations, etc. Neither do I use sponge filters in fry tanks, I just cover the intakes of my filters with a sponge, bio-bag, etc. My preference, which has it's advantages, but not the only way to do it.

Mine were good at caring for them up to that point, including protecting them in their mouths, making little pits to release them into for brief periods, and similar strategies while the fry mature. Another thing red heads will do, it's both reported and it's what mine did, was parents would take turns, one holds fry while the other eats, then they switch. It's worth seeing these natural behaviors, good experience vs a more artificial approach, at least with fish for which it works-- my opinion.

In the same tank with mine were wild Peru scalare, couple of rotkeil sevs, few congo tetras, an L200 and L260 pleco and, for a while, some guianacara. The geos had no problem raising fry in this tank, with various driftwood, plants, and rocks to provide nesting sites, etc.

I think this might be a good idea to get a feel for how well they do at parenting. My only concern is it’s a 150 gallon community tank of some larger fish. Right now there are 3 red head Tapajos (since we moved the other 2), 4 Threadfin Acara, 5 yo-yo loaches, 4 silver dollars and 1 Sailfin Pleco about 14 inches in size. Would you still suggest keeping the babies in there to see what happens?

 

[neutrino]

I think this might be a good idea to get a feel for how well they do at parenting. My only concern is it’s a 150 gallon community tank of some larger fish. Right now there are 3 red head Tapajos (since we moved the other 2), 4 Threadfin Acara, 5 yo-yo loaches, 4 silver dollars and 1 Sailfin Pleco about 14 inches in size. Would you still suggest keeping the babies in there to see what happens?

Don't know, a pleco that large may be a problem. What has worked for me sometimes is to make a tangle of some combination of plants, branches and rock at one end of the tank for parents to protect and fry to hide in, emulating what you see in some wild, underwater videos. One thing to watch for with this method is when the babies reach the stage of getting more bold and venturing out too far if other fish are large enough (and inclined) to pick them off at this stage.

Can't say for sure what I'd do, maybe let things be a time or two to see how it goes, but I wouldn't blame you for putting a pair in a separate tank. Only thing is I don't know whether this will upset them and cause them to swallow the fry, which can happen occasionally. Some species are more prone to this than others, don't know whether the red heads would do this, it wasn't something I did with them. Either way, they'll surely try again in a few weeks.

 

[Niki_up]

I suggest leaving eggs and parents in the aquarium that will give the new parents experience. Never personally heard of female of any cichlid raising fry of another female.

I don’t know if this is true for these guys...but, some African cichlid females will actually herd other females babies and steal them for “raising” with her own clutch. In the wild they will do this to pad their own clutch of fry in hopes of more of their own fry making it to adults. When predators drive bomb a swarm of fry they have a 50/50 chance of getting stolen fry or that females fry.

 

[phreeflow]

I don’t know if this is true for these guys...but, some African cichlid females will actually herd other females babies and steal them for “raising” with her own clutch. In the wild they will do this to pad their own clutch of fry in hopes of more of their own fry making it to adults. When predators drive bomb a swarm of fry they have a 50/50 chance of getting stolen fry or that females fry.

I had two different discus pairs divided by an egg crate and as the fry swam from through the egg crate from one side to the other, the discus would “adopt” each other’s fry.

As for the redheads, I would wait until the female is holding and strip her of the fry. I do it early With my sveni and place the fry in egg tumblers until they are free swimming. Then they go into their own tank and are reared there. Some prefer to let the female hold until the fry are more well developed and have already absorbed the yolk sac before stripping the female. Gently catch the female over a container of tank water, hold her lower jaw open, and swish water in and out of her mouth and over her gill plates and she will spit them out. But the best option would be for them to rear their fry naturally...it’s really neat to see. Strip the first batch or two so you have fry to raise then let the parent do their thing naturally with the next batches.