Redtail Catfish Advice

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KMKgirl1605

Gambusia
MFK Member
Jul 21, 2011
20
1
16
Everett, WA
Hello Evereyone!
Ok, so I'd like to start off by saying I'm nuts :screwy:, I know. Secondly, We are hammering down details to build a 10,000+ Gal. pond in the back yard for my Redtail(s) that should be up and ready for fish by the end of next summer. I am fully aware of what I'm getting into and am ready to spend away my life savings on my beloved catfish. OK! So now that thats out of the way, heres my problem. I have had my current S. American RTC for about 2 yrs, hes about 18" long and super happy and healthy. Hes in a 360 indoor pond right now until we can get the big pond up and ready. I went to the fish store yesterday and came across another redtail (about 11") in way too small of a tank with early stages of gill curl. So of course being the RTC lover that I am I somehow convinced myself I could probably give him a better home than most other people that might buy him considering I know what I'm in for and have a gameplan in place. I brought him home and put him in the pond with my big one. When they met the first time the big one was very interested in him but there was no aggression. I watched them for about 45 minutes, no problems, so I left for a few hours. When I came home I found the lil ones pectoral fins were pretty torn up and his tail fin was shredded. There was also some damage to his tail itself. I watched them for another 2 hours last night and there was no more aggression, the big one would run into the lil one, feel him over with his whiskers and swim away. The lil one is sitting pretty much in one spot, not moving around much. As soon as I woke up this morning I checked them again, no change, fins dont appear to have any additional damage. I have a 125 I could put the lil guy in while he recovers, but Im torn because Im worried if I take him out he is going to have to go through this again when we reintroduce them in the big pond. My question is for anybody with Redtail experience or that has multiple redtails. When adding a new RTC to one thats been solo for a while, is there typically one big fight to establish dominance then they generally get along for the most part or is the aggression something that will continue and I should move the little guy to the 125? I have read that they dont like their own species but I've heard/seen countless cases where there are multiples together without a problem...any advice or thoughts you may have on this would be greatly appreciated. Im sorry for the super long post, I just want to make sure all the details are in there. Thanks!!
 
"When adding a new RTC to one thats been solo for a while, is there typically one big fight to establish dominance then they generally get along for the most part or is the aggression something that will continue and I should move the little guy to the 125?"

I think there are 3 main kinds of aggression: predatory, territorial, and hierarchal. If I had to guess, yours was the third kind. It is a bit unexpected but not unheard of. It depends on many things, including tank size, fish's history and diet, temperament, etc.


"I have read that they dont like their own species but I've heard/seen countless cases where there are multiples together without a problem..."

Some thoughts to ponder:
-- Small RTCs are territorial but normally cease to be territorial by 4"-5".
-- Some RTCs appear unusually predatory than most others (I'd say this is more rare than not) - a few examples: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...LP-RTC-getting-on-my-last-nerve&highlight=AAA
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...y-RTC-never-ceases-to-amaze-me!&highlight=AAA
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?521502-Bad-week&highlight=AAA
-- Hierarchy is usually established between RTCs in a small tank (relatively speaking, e.g., two 10"-ers in 120 gal or two 3'-ers in a 2000 gal that I witnessed). I have had up to 5 of 2'-ers in a 4000 gal, 40'x6'x3' pond with no interaction between them whatsoever. There were a hundred other big fish in there too.
 
I believe the size difference could also play a factor. 7" bigger with a catfish is huge because of the girth they obtain. If it were me, I'd let the new one grow for a couple of months in the 125 so he can grow closer to the size of the bigger one. it probably wouldn't be far fetched to say that the bigger one cold eat or kill the smaller one trying. As stated above, there is predatory, territorial and dominant aggression. What if it was predatory and he tried to eat him?
 
Thanks for the replys, definetly some good info there. I agree that it seems like a dominance thing. I dont think it was predatory because I've had the big RT since he was about 1" long and he has never eaten a live fish. Hes never shown any aggression towards any of his other tankmates(arowana, channel cats, irridescent sharks, polypterus, angelfish, etc.) over the last 2 years. Its possible it was territorial cuz the big one tends to stay on the left side of the pond and the lil one has been staying on the right side. I have been watching them like a hawk and the big one still comes to check out the lil one but there still doesnt seem to be any new damage. I would move him to the 125, but I'm worried when we re-introduce them later the fight may be worse and I may end up losing one of them. I'm also a little nervous because the 125 has some polypterus in it that are a lil fin-nippy and considering his fins are pretty torn up they may take the invitation...I will move him to the 125 if I see any other signs of aggression from the big RT, but at this point I'm hoping they established their chain of command and hopefully the big guy continues to leave the lil one alone....I really appreciate you guys taking the time to help out, and I'd be more than happy to listen to any other info/thoughts you may have. Thank you!!
 
I'd leave them be and watch closely.
 
KMKgirl1605 said:
I am fully aware of what I'm getting into and am ready to spend away my life savings on my beloved catfish.
Click to expand...

I sure hope that you're a younger person! Because if you're an older person...and you truly spend your life's savings...it's going to be one rough retirement (just you and your 10,000 gallon catfish pond)!;)
 
Haha! Yes I'm only 25, if I was older I'd worry about them outliving me and not having anyone crazy enough to devote their time and money to caring for them the way I do! My plan is to just keep watching them closely, if there's any more trouble I'll move him and go from there. Thank u again!
 
UPDATE: So I did end up having to move him. I didn't actually see any more aggression from the big retail but the lil guys fins seemed to be getting worse (I think it was the Green Sunfish in the pond). So I put him in the 125 last night. So far everybody seems to be getting along. I can finally get a good look at his damage though and it looks pretty bad. I'm doing 40-50% water changes every other days and thinking about putting a tiny bit of salt in there (not much cuz I know catfish dont tolerate salt well). He can still move his "stump" as I've come to call it through the back of his lil top fin so he can still get around ok, its a struggle but he's doing ok. Do you guys think he can recover from this? I know if he does he's probably gonna be a little deformed which I'm fine with, but I'm still worried he's not gonna make it....

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Man! That fish's been through a war...

UPDATE: So I did end up having to move him. I didn't actually see any more aggression from the big retail but the lil guys fins seemed to be getting worse (I think it was the Green Sunfish in the pond).

*****This is not worse - this is very bad. The hind part of his body is partly digested - the skin and the tail fin are digested away with the stomach acid. It was in someone else's stomach but then that someone spit him out, could not swallow him whole or started choking, etc.

So I put him in the 125 last night. So far everybody seems to be getting along. I can finally get a good look at his damage though and it looks pretty bad. I'm doing 40-50% water changes every other days and thinking about putting a tiny bit of salt in there (not much cuz I know catfish dont tolerate salt well).

*****Opinions on that vary but IMO, this is not true at all. You can read this for starters. http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?226328-Salt-and-Its-Uses

He can still move his "stump" as I've come to call it through the back of his lil top fin so he can still get around ok, its a struggle but he's doing ok. Do you guys think he can recover from this?

*****He may require more than salt. If it gets red and inflamed/infected, chances are he will not make it unless you try something strong like erythromycin etc.

I know if he does he's probably gonna be a little deformed which I'm fine with, but I'm still worried he's not gonna make it....

*****I am not aware of this type of damage causing any deformities but then, again, I'd guesstimate 1% of fish in such cases (in not too experienced hands) survive. Much less than 50% survive in experienced hands.

This is gruesome but happens often, so don't feel excessively terrible, almost all of us have been through this and more than once...
 
Things have gotten much worse...his skin has started the peel off and I can see raw muscle underneath. He can still move his tail and gets around, but doesn't look good at all. I did a water change last night and added some salt. I am doing another water change now, but I'm torn between trying to medicate him or put him out of his misery...I did find one case online where someone described the same symptoms and the rtc made it so I'd like to try, but I don't want him to suffer either....
 
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