Registry for private sector (exotic animals & fish)

[Bsixxx]

Was randomly thinking about this topic now that I have all this extra time in my schedule thanks to this pandemic. I came to this random thought that if MFK made an encrypted registry of all the keepers in the private sector who have bred or kept rare or exotic species or made scientific breakthroughs. My thoughts about this registry being encrypted or having some levels of security is not only to protect against potential cyber hackers obtaing people's personal information but, also keeping information from certain government agencies. I know people keep species that might not be "legal" in certain jurisdictions or states/ countries, but may have had success breeding or even keeping alive in home aquaria. My thoughts behind this plan is not only scientific documentation on how to keep certain species more accurately in the home aquaria but also a continuously documented achievement of record.
There is a lot of information on the internet but very rarely is it verified or even current for others to use. Maybe this could be used as leverage as well to get species off the federal banned list as well. Ex. Asian arowana. I know they aren't banned in every country and even heard people breeding them, maybe with enough documented cases of safe keeping and breeding we could use as leverage one day in the USA.

Just my .02 if others with opinions want to chime in or add their perspectives.

 

[jjohnwm]

I've been accused of being a cynic...and in this case I admit that I clicked on the thread because I like the OP's avatar pic ...but my first reaction to this idea is that it has merit but is also potentially dangerous.

The word "registry" often brings to mind visions of future confiscation and/or prosecution. It creates a shopping list, complete with names and addresses, of items that some future change in legislation might target as dangerous. As a Canadian owner of firearms, this is just about the first thing that leaps to mind when I think about this plan. Unfortunately, keeping it anonymous also makes it largely worthless, so...I don't know what to say beyond that.

 

[fishhead0103666]

The first thing that comes to my mind is mfk being threatened with a law suit or being shut down if they don't cease it or hand it over to the government.

 

[Bsixxx]

I've been accused of being a cynic...and in this case I admit that I clicked on the thread because I like the OP's avatar pic ...but my first reaction to this idea is that it has merit but is also potentially dangerous.

The word "registry" often brings to mind visions of future confiscation and/or prosecution. It creates a shopping list, complete with names and addresses, of items that some future change in legislation might target as dangerous. As a Canadian owner of firearms, this is just about the first thing that leaps to mind when I think about this plan. Unfortunately, keeping it anonymous also makes it largely worthless, so...I don't know what to say beyond that.

2nd amendment in America is in the same boat, and registry might have not been the best word for this. And the mfk thing might not be an issue as it would be a voluntary list of encrypted sources. No paper trail.

For example (hypothetical! )

I privately breed asian arowana, I submit my documented accounts of behaviour, water chemistry, age of aninals, etc etc, I submit it to this blog that registers the information and pictures or proof of breeding and assigns a random alphanumeric name to it instead of my real name or display name ( Bsixxx )

Idk, these days there is always two sides of a coin and unfortunately the side of demise or uncertainty usually wins.

 

[MatteoTheEnder22]

2nd amendment in America is in the same boat, and registry might have not been the best word for this. And the mfk thing might not be an issue as it would be a voluntary list of encrypted sources. No paper trail.

For example (hypothetical! )

I privately breed asian arowana, I submit my documented accounts of behaviour, water chemistry, age of aninals, etc etc, I submit it to this blog that registers the information and pictures or proof of breeding and assigns a random alphanumeric name to it instead of my real name or display name ( Bsixxx )

Idk, these days there is always two sides of a coin and unfortunately the side of demise or uncertainty usually wins.

Well I personally think it sounds like a great idea but then again what am i supposed to know im only 14 and understand legal laws on prohibited and conditional species but then again i want a Goddam Asian arrowana.

 

[MrsE88]

I think if things were kept legal it wouldn’t be a bad idea.
Anything good and above board should be out in the open and not hiding behind encryptions. It makes it seem too sketchy and unreliable. And a person like myself wouldn’t even risk being involved with something that could land me in jail, with hefty fines, and possibly unable to continue in the hobby I love. It just wouldn’t be worth it.

 

[jjohnwm]

There would be no danger of prosecution or other recrimination if you don't do anything illegal in the first place. Simple, right? Except...concern arises about possible future changes in legislation that create "paper criminals" at the stroke of some uneducated bureaucratic pen.

You have a collection of XXX fish that are completely legal to own. The species comes to the attention of the media when it is discovered that, if one of these fish is swallowed backwards by a drunken college student on a bet, it can lodge in the throat and result in a choking death. A crusading do-gooder single-handedly instigates a campaign to have the killer fish outlawed, because, of course, "it it saves one life..." The legislators of your state/province/country, react with a lightning-quick knee-jerk response that makes the XXX fish illegal to own. Maybe you, as an existing owner, are "grand-fathered", allowing you to keep your prized fish; you think to yourself "Well, this is not so bad..." until you realize that you can't sell your fish or their progeny because there are so few people who can legally possess them now...and all of those people already have them. The fish have no value, aside from their sentimental value to you, because the market for them has been destroyed. You don't even have the satisfaction of knowing that your breeding efforts are perpetuating the species, because when you die...your fish go, quite literally, down the drain.

But, you don't own any of the infamous XXX species, so you don't need to worry, right? Welllll...maybe not now...but how about when the same, or some other, overzealous I-must-save-the-world-from-itself do-gooder sees the precedent that has been set, and immediately begins campaigning to rid the world of the threat posed by captive fish in general? It's a slippery slope, and eventually you find yourself at the bottom of it, and it will be way too late to change anything then.

Some folks here may recognize the analogy that I am drawing...others may not...and many may laugh or scoff at this far-fetched scenario. Far-fetched it may be...or at least, it should be...but this happens, and is happening, to many people in other areas of interest. As the laws proliferate and the restrictions become more and more complicated, many owners will not even be able to keep track of what is currently legal and what is currently outlawed.

Personally, I am involved heavily in a number of hobbies and interests, and I assiduously adhere to the legal requirements related to them, even if I think they are stupid; I simply have too much to lose for me to risk breaking the law. It gets pretty tough when there are so many confusing and conflicting laws that keeping abreast of them is a full-time job.

Encryption? Cool sounding word; my 10-year old granddaughter can do things with computers that I don't begin to understand; don't expect me to feel more comfortable about this just because it's encrypted, encoded, written in invisible ink or otherwise concealed.

And that is my long-winded diatribe on why I will never...ever...ever...subscribe to a list or database like the one described here.

 

[esoxlucius]

If that's your other half in your avatar pic all i can say is that water change day must be a nightmare for you. If she walks round like that all the time I bet you've had more tanks over flowing than you care to mention. Jeeeez.

 

[Bsixxx]

There would be no danger of prosecution or other recrimination if you don't do anything illegal in the first place. Simple, right? Except...concern arises about possible future changes in legislation that create "paper criminals" at the stroke of some uneducated bureaucratic pen.

You have a collection of XXX fish that are completely legal to own. The species comes to the attention of the media when it is discovered that, if one of these fish is swallowed backwards by a drunken college student on a bet, it can lodge in the throat and result in a choking death. A crusading do-gooder single-handedly instigates a campaign to have the killer fish outlawed, because, of course, "it it saves one life..." The legislators of your state/province/country, react with a lightning-quick knee-jerk response that makes the XXX fish illegal to own. Maybe you, as an existing owner, are "grand-fathered", allowing you to keep your prized fish; you think to yourself "Well, this is not so bad..." until you realize that you can't sell your fish or their progeny because there are so few people who can legally possess them now...and all of those people already have them. The fish have no value, aside from their sentimental value to you, because the market for them has been destroyed. You don't even have the satisfaction of knowing that your breeding efforts are perpetuating the species, because when you die...your fish go, quite literally, down the drain.

But, you don't own any of the infamous XXX species, so you don't need to worry, right? Welllll...maybe not now...but how about when the same, or some other, overzealous I-must-save-the-world-from-itself do-gooder sees the precedent that has been set, and immediately begins campaigning to rid the world of the threat posed by captive fish in general? It's a slippery slope, and eventually you find yourself at the bottom of it, and it will be way too late to change anything then.

Some folks here may recognize the analogy that I am drawing...others may not...and many may laugh or scoff at this far-fetched scenario. Far-fetched it may be...or at least, it should be...but this happens, and is happening, to many people in other areas of interest. As the laws proliferate and the restrictions become more and more complicated, many owners will not even be able to keep track of what is currently legal and what is currently outlawed.

Personally, I am involved heavily in a number of hobbies and interests, and I assiduously adhere to the legal requirements related to them, even if I think they are stupid; I simply have too much to lose for me to risk breaking the law. It gets pretty tough when there are so many confusing and conflicting laws that keeping abreast of them is a full-time job.

Encryption? Cool sounding word; my 10-year old granddaughter can do things with computers that I don't begin to understand; don't expect me to feel more comfortable about this just because it's encrypted, encoded, written in invisible ink or otherwise concealed.

And that is my long-winded diatribe on why I will never...ever...ever...subscribe to a list or database like the one described here.

I'm glad people like you with a better ability to portray visualization than I commented.
It is indeed a slippery slope, I too like many others have too many other hobbies. But, my thinking behind such a list isn't necessarily about those banned or illegal animals species, I just felt that would gain more attention for others to comment and voice opinions. The fact of the matter is we aren't seeing that much new information in this hobby, we see new faces every year with every generation, which is a start, but we aren't making any new advancements in this hobby.
But, then again I don't know anyone else in this hobby like I used to. I had connections around the globe and used to talk with dozens about new stuff, their tanks, weird collaborations, etc now it seems like that is gone and it's all about keeping the same stuff everyone else does because it's safe and more cost effective.
I used to see people keep marine groupers and sharks with cichlids and other freshwater fish, used to see weird species cross bred with others thought to have been impossible, and used to see and hear about people keeping species alive in tanks thought to need private lakes to survive.
I just don't see that anymore and my reasoning is because, I think people are too sensitive to post what they have in fear of backlash or drama from the new generation not understanding how things work.

 

[Justepic]

I'm glad people like you with a better ability to portray visualization than I commented.
It is indeed a slippery slope, I too like many others have too many other hobbies. But, my thinking behind such a list isn't necessarily about those banned or illegal animals species, I just felt that would gain more attention for others to comment and voice opinions. The fact of the matter is we aren't seeing that much new information in this hobby, we see new faces every year with every generation, which is a start, but we aren't making any new advancements in this hobby.
But, then again I don't know anyone else in this hobby like I used to. I had connections around the globe and used to talk with dozens about new stuff, their tanks, weird collaborations, etc now it seems like that is gone and it's all about keeping the same stuff everyone else does because it's safe and more cost effective.
I used to see people keep marine groupers and sharks with cichlids and other freshwater fish, used to see weird species cross bred with others thought to have been impossible, and used to see and hear about people keeping species alive in tanks thought to need private lakes to survive.
I just don't see that anymore and my reasoning is because, I think people are too sensitive to post what they have in fear of backlash or drama from the new generation not understanding how things work.

That was inspiring.... and sad. I never knew it was like this.

I guess people need to be reminded: Fishkeeping is as much of an art as a science.

And most pieces of art are made by mistakes.