Return size for new build

[DN328]

Some great points were made above. I don’t agree with the smaller diameter plumbing causing the return to draw less power though. If anything smaller plumbing will put more strain on the return pump and shorten it’s life span. One thing to consider is your target turnover and pump size. If your return pump puts out a max 2650 at zero head height. Factor in head height and 90s and your going to be at about half that. You will also be running them at 100% duty (another thing that will shorten pump life) I would consider a larger return and throttle it back to insure you have the turnover your shooting for.

I tend to agree with this thought process as well in not wanting to restrict flow.

Backfromthedead , If I were you I'd go bigger DC and dial back. FWIW, I use a Waveline DC 10000 rated ~2800 at 0 head height, at 7 of 11 power step on my 260g. My fish are under 5" and I'm going to want to turn up as they grow for increased turnover.

BTW here's a snapshot of my return splitting with the T to two 3/4" returns. Not the greatest pix but just to give the visual.

 

[Backfromthedead]

Some great points were made above. I don’t agree with the smaller diameter plumbing causing the return to draw less power though. If anything smaller plumbing will put more strain on the return pump and shorten it’s life span. One thing to consider is your target turnover and pump size. If your return pump puts out a max 2650 at zero head height. Factor in head height and 90s and your going to be at about half that. You will also be running them at 100% duty (another thing that will shorten pump life) I would consider a larger return and throttle it back to insure you have the turnover your shooting for.

Typically i avoid 90s and tees completely in my return plumbing. I use Ys, 45s and flexible hose to cut down on friction losses. The way my sumps are situated its a nearly straight shot with one 45 feeding the returns. I've also dropped this tank down to a 34" stand from my normal 40-42" stands.

Im pretty confident these pumps should work for me running 70-80% at most. If they don't i may opt for some larger ones down the road. Once i get the tank done ill post my findings though.

 

[Backfromthedead]

I tend to agree with this thought process as well in not wanting to restrict flow.

Backfromthedead , If I were you I'd go bigger DC and dial back. FWIW, I use a Waveline DC 10000 rated ~2800 at 0 head height, at 7 of 11 power step on my 260g. My fish are under 5" and I'm going to want to turn up as they grow for increased turnover.

BTW here's a snapshot of my return splitting with the T to two 3/4" returns. Not the greatest pix but just to give the visual.

View attachment 1410316

I see what you mean, but what is your turnover on 7/11 and how big is the sump? My new setup will be 400 gallon+2x 75 gallon sumps so around 500 gallons running. Seems like your setup is working pretty well and I'd essentially have two pumps the same size as yours moving less water per pump overall.

 

[Oughtsix]

Very good explanation. Makes more sense to me now. Thank you.

So would you say 1" return lines and bulkheads would be ideal in my case? or should i go 1.5" or even 1.25"? I suppose redrilling the returns wont be too much work.

Personally I don't care for 1 1/4" pvc plumbing, my local stores hardly stock any fittings at all for it. 1 1/2" should give you all the flow you need without finding out later your return is restricting your flow. I think above ground pool plumbing is usually 1 1/2" so there is good parts availability.

PVC pipe size	ID	OD	GPM - low pressure	GPH - low pressure
1/2"	.50-.60"	.85"	7 gpm	420 gph
3/4"	.75-.85"	1.06"	11 gpm	660 gph
1"	1.00-1.03"	1.33"	16 gpm	960 gph
1.25"	1.25-1.36"	1.67"	25 gpm	1,500 gph
1.5"	1.50-1.60"	1.90"	35 gpm	2100 gph

Pool pumps will achieve a higher pressure than most sump pumps that I am familiar with so they can push more water through a smaller pipe. Pool pumps achieve a considerably higher pressure than what a sump pump can reach.

What are you going to use on the end of the return line inside your tank? Spray bar? Some other type of outlet?

I would recommend a minimum of a 1" return... above 1" is really depends on your system and how much flow you want to achieve. If you are going to restrict the flow at the end of the return line in your tank it doesn't make a lot of sense to run a whole bunch bigger return pipe.


The 2650 max GPH the DP 10000 quotes is really fantasy. That is the flow with zero head and no plumbing attached to the outlet to restrict the flow using special water that they water down to make thinner water. I would bet that with the head and fittings that pump will never really do over 1,500 gph. Every aquarium pump I have ever used is this way, this is not unique to Jebao. On the flip side when you are running your system and you actually do get 1500 gph I think you will discover that is a but load of water and a but load of flow!

 

[Backfromthedead]

Personally I don't care for 1 1/4" pvc plumbing, my local stores hardly stock any fittings at all for it. 1 1/2" should give you all the flow you need without finding out later your return is restricting your flow. I think above ground pool plumbing is usually 1 1/2" so there is good parts availability.

PVC pipe size	ID	OD	GPM - low pressure	GPH - low pressure
1/2"	.50-.60"	.85"	7 gpm	420 gph
3/4"	.75-.85"	1.06"	11 gpm	660 gph
1"	1.00-1.03"	1.33"	16 gpm	960 gph
1.25"	1.25-1.36"	1.67"	25 gpm	1,500 gph
1.5"	1.50-1.60"	1.90"	35 gpm	2100 gph

Pool pumps will achieve a higher pressure than most sump pumps that I am familiar with so they can push more water through a smaller pipe. Pool pumps achieve a considerably higher pressure than what a sump pump can reach.

What are you going to use on the end of the return line inside your tank? Spray bar? Some other type of outlet?

I would recommend a minimum of a 1" return... above 1" is really depends on your system and how much flow you want to achieve. If you are going to restrict the flow at the end of the return line in your tank it doesn't make a lot of sense to run a whole bunch bigger return pipe.


The 2650 max GPH the DP 10000 quotes is really fantasy. That is the flow with zero head and no plumbing attached to the outlet to restrict the flow using special water that they water down to make thinner water. I would bet that with the head and fittings that pump will never really do over 1,500 gph. Every aquarium pump I have ever used is this way, this is not unique to Jebao. On the flip side when you are running your system and you actually do get 1500 gph I think you will discover that is a but load of water and a but load of flow!

Yes 1500 would be my top end for sure. Im shooting for 1200 on everyday operation if that wasnt clear. With that flow i should be getting ~5x turnover through both sumps.

One of my options is to redrill the 3/4" returns as 1.5". That would give me five 1.5" bulkheads evenly a foot apart on the back panel. Its looking like the best option so far simply for the flexibility. Ive never had a tank this large...gotta start thinking bigger i suppose.

 

[DN328]

Personally I don't care for 1 1/4" pvc plumbing, my local stores hardly stock any fittings at all for it. 1 1/2" should give you all the flow you need without finding out later your return is restricting your flow. I think above ground pool plumbing is usually 1 1/2" so there is good parts availability.

PVC pipe size	ID	OD	GPM - low pressure	GPH - low pressure
1/2"	.50-.60"	.85"	7 gpm	420 gph
3/4"	.75-.85"	1.06"	11 gpm	660 gph
1"	1.00-1.03"	1.33"	16 gpm	960 gph
1.25"	1.25-1.36"	1.67"	25 gpm	1,500 gph
1.5"	1.50-1.60"	1.90"	35 gpm	2100 gph

Pool pumps will achieve a higher pressure than most sump pumps that I am familiar with so they can push more water through a smaller pipe. Pool pumps achieve a considerably higher pressure than what a sump pump can reach.

What are you going to use on the end of the return line inside your tank? Spray bar? Some other type of outlet?

I would recommend a minimum of a 1" return... above 1" is really depends on your system and how much flow you want to achieve. If you are going to restrict the flow at the end of the return line in your tank it doesn't make a lot of sense to run a whole bunch bigger return pipe.


The 2650 max GPH the DP 10000 quotes is really fantasy. That is the flow with zero head and no plumbing attached to the outlet to restrict the flow using special water that they water down to make thinner water. I would bet that with the head and fittings that pump will never really do over 1,500 gph. Every aquarium pump I have ever used is this way, this is not unique to Jebao. On the flip side when you are running your system and you actually do get 1500 gph I think you will discover that is a but load of water and a but load of flow!

What does "low pressure" indicate in the table column?

 

[DN328]

Yes 1500 would be my top end for sure. Im shooting for 1200 on everyday operation if that wasnt clear. With that flow i should be getting ~5x turnover through both sumps.

One of my options is to redrill the 3/4" returns as 1.5". That would give me five 1.5" bulkheads evenly a foot apart on the back panel. Its looking like the best option so far simply for the flexibility. Ive never had a tank this large...gotta start thinking bigger i suppose.

IMO you should consider splitting the 1.25"/1.5" plumbing to dual returns. This gives you some flexibility with loc-lines and spray heads as they come in 3/4". I don't think you should be concerned with restriction going this route.

 

[Oughtsix]

What does "low pressure" indicate in the table column?

If you go to the link I referenced above (https://flexpvc.com/Reference/WaterFlowBasedOnPipeSize.shtml) and look at the table is has values for "Low Pressure", "20 psi - 100 psi" and "Above 100 psi". Nothing in the aquarium filtration world that I have ever seen comes even close to 20 psi so I only listed the 0 - 20 psi columns of the table and left the others out. I added the "low pressure" to the column headings to denote this. I probably should have labeled them "0 - 20 psi".

This is their more accurate chart to determine water flow:

 

[DN328]

I see, so the amount of pressure that water is forced though by typical aquarium pumps? Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Backfromthedead]

I ended up going with a hybrid of what was suggested here. Drilled a hole for 1.25" bulkhead in the upper left corner. One sump will split between the two 3/4" returns, the other will go straight to the 1.25". In my mind this will allow for plenty of flow throughout but also provide more turbulent and calmer parts of the tank as well. I alsk already have all the parts i need for this configuration so that was big too.