Ok.. so this is going to sound kind of silly of me to ask, but I will anyways. I've been in the hobby a good while, and I can keep and breed my fish well, my water parameters are always near perfect for whatever fish I'm keeping, and in general, I consider myself pretty knowledgable. However... I have never been able to get the advantages of Sumps, or wet dry filtration. The benfits of each of those, or exactly what they are. So can anyone give me a run-down of what a Sump is, and what it does, and how a Wet Dry Filtration system is effective? From what I understand, a sump is kinda like a filter with ALOT of bio-media, so it increases the space bacteria can grow, so it provides better biological filtration. Accurate? If not, please explain it to me. If I am accurate, still please explain it further to me. Like for instance.. would it be viable to have a 55g sump on a 10g tank and have extremely good filtration? Thanks in advance.. and I know it's a silly question for someone who supposedly knows abit.
Ridiculous Sump+Wet Dry question
- Thread starter Dread
- Start date
I've tried searching, believe me. There's plenty of threads on it, but I haven't been able to find a straight forward answer on it's advantages and what not. If you can find it though, and provide me with a link, I'd be appreciative, and this thread could be closed.
you have a good grasp on the basics. The wet/dry will work like any other filter but it has several advantages.
Ability to hide equipment such as heaters, UV sterilizers, etc.
It provides additional volume for greater system stability.
They're MUCH easier to maintain (all you do is change a prefilter once in a while...while it's running)
They provide unmatched gas exchange
No need for massive flow rates. 3X turnover rate is plenty in most applications.
Total filtration redundancy is easy and inexpensive by adding a second smaller pump.
Cheap to run (100 watts filters my 300g)
You have the opportunity to customize the filter and add/subtract media (to cycle other tanks) while the filter is running
You can isolate fish if needed
Automated water changes are easier to install (and look better) with a wet/dry
Finally......They're EASY and VERY INEXPENSIVE to make!
Obviously they're not for all applications. Planted tanks require a bit more work because of the massive gas exchange (though it can and has been done), and small tanks are just easier to filter with small filters.
Ability to hide equipment such as heaters, UV sterilizers, etc.
It provides additional volume for greater system stability.
They're MUCH easier to maintain (all you do is change a prefilter once in a while...while it's running)
They provide unmatched gas exchange
No need for massive flow rates. 3X turnover rate is plenty in most applications.
Total filtration redundancy is easy and inexpensive by adding a second smaller pump.
Cheap to run (100 watts filters my 300g)
You have the opportunity to customize the filter and add/subtract media (to cycle other tanks) while the filter is running
You can isolate fish if needed
Automated water changes are easier to install (and look better) with a wet/dry
Finally......They're EASY and VERY INEXPENSIVE to make!
Obviously they're not for all applications. Planted tanks require a bit more work because of the massive gas exchange (though it can and has been done), and small tanks are just easier to filter with small filters.
Thanks, rallysman! You've cleared up alot of the questions I had. So let's suppose I wanted to make a wet/dry for my 55g, just as an example. Is there a general rule of thumb when it comes to size? Like "make it half the size of the tank" or something like that? Could I basically just section off a 20g long, fill it with a bunch of bioballs, and attach a pump, and have abit of extra Biological filtration?
Also, how would a fish be isolated with a wet/dry system? Actually just put the fish into the filter?
Also, how would a fish be isolated with a wet/dry system? Actually just put the fish into the filter?
Dread;1092608; said:
Generally, a tank 1/3 the size will work, but I've had luck using tanks smaller than that. For example, the sump on my 300 is 55g and works flawlessly.
A 20g would be awesome for a 55. Check out the DIY stickies and you can let your imagination flow from there. As long as the water goes through a prefilter, then biomedia, it will work.
Here is how easy it can be.
Put an eggcrate divider vertically in the tank. To the left of the divider (grey/darkblue) fill it with bio media.
On top of that. make some sort of drip tray so the water can spill from the overflow and spread over the bio media.
The pump goes to the right of the divider and the horizontal blue line represents the water level.
In this type of sump, some of the bio media will be covered, but you'll still get the wet/dry effect.
Fish could be isolated in the area of the pumps if the sump is large enough (and the intake of the pump is protected)
This generic sump would work very well.
Dread;1092543; said:
Wet dry filters with their capacity for holding lots of biological media, provide excellent biological filtration for large tanks. A bunch of HOB filters probably wouldn't have enough bio media for a large overstocked tank. Even a couple of large canister filters might not provide enough bio. filtration for the same tank. The concept of a wet dry filter is pretty simple. As a newbie, even with all the reading I did, I could not visualize a wet dry filter. I was actually disappointed when our ProClear Filter arrived. I will never buy another one. I know that I can build a bigger better one for a fraction of what I paid...so we'll build the next one. If you build a wet/dry filter, you can add a mechanical component to it. Most large tanks have built-in overflow boxes, which are ideal to plumb the wet/dry system to. Since the water flows into the overflow box at the top of the overflow box, only the debris floating in the water will manage to make it into the overflow box and down to the filter system. I've heard of people putting powerheads in the tank to stir up the debris so it gets into the overflow box and out. Unless you're stirring things up, a wet/dry system with overflow boxes is probably not going to provide you with great mechanical filtration. HOB filters with their uptakes near the floor provide excellent mechanical filtration and can provide adequate biological filtration for the smaller tank (under 100 gallons). Canister filters packed with the appropriate media can provide good biological and mechanical filtration.
Going back to the wet/dry filter--on a large heavily stocked tank, a wet/dry filter can provide all the bio. filtration needed, but another filtration system for mechanical filtration might be needed. On our 300 gallon tank, we have a large wet/dry filter (pump 1560 gph) and have extreme mechanical filtration with two spa filters run with a large Hammerhead pump (5800 gph). Even with excellent water parameters, we added an FX-5 and attached a 40Watt UV sterilizer to the return line. This is our backup system which we could also use for an instant hospital tank.
The recommended flow rates vary for the type of filtration. For HOB filters the turnover rate is 10X. For canister filters it's at least 4X. The flow rate on a wet dry is fairly slow. So to answer your question about a 55 gal sump on a 10 gallon tank: you cannot have enough fish in a 10 gallon tank to produce the bioload to max out a 55 gallon wet/dry filter. In other words, you really couldn't justify the wet/dry. For a mere fraction in cost, you could put a HOB filter on that small tank and have great mechanical and biological filtration.
I actually meant a 10g sump on a 55g tank. But your example kind of answered my next question (which would have been "Huge sump on a smaller tank?"). So far, I think I'm understanding it. Now for the next round of questions, if I may. ^^
Overflow boxes. I assume these are the quarter-circle things in the corner of some larger tanks. My question is how are fish stopped from "overflowing," and how is water pushed over this box? By water naturally trying to fill up crevices, so it goes over the box, down into the sump?
Overflow boxes. I assume these are the quarter-circle things in the corner of some larger tanks. My question is how are fish stopped from "overflowing," and how is water pushed over this box? By water naturally trying to fill up crevices, so it goes over the box, down into the sump?
Dread;1092697; said:
A few different types of overflows exist, but all of them work off of gravity. Whatever volume is returned by the pump will "overflow". So as long as the overflow can handle the pumps return rate, the system will be fine.
The type that you mentioned (corner flow) usually has holes drilled into the bottom of the tank, and a standpipe goes up into that section so it is hidden. (search google for Durso standpipe for a ton of info). The hole on the bottom of this pic would either be for a second overflow, or a return.
Some tanks just have the back of them drilled at the top, which determines the water level.
A HOB overflow works on a siphon/pressure difference to equalize pressure inside of the tank to a very small "tank" that hangs on the back of the tank. The small "tank" that hangs off of the back just has a hole in it so it can drain to the sump.
You can also mimic a HOB overflow with PVC (and it does work very well). Just check the DIY overflow sticky in the DIY section. It has all of the info you could wish for.
As far as keeping fish out of the overflow, it's not really hard. Since you can get away with low flow rates, the fish aren't really pulled towards it. Additionally, you can add guards to keep them from being pulled in.
*none of the pix are mine
And the overflow has to be situated (like for that 2nd picture you posted) low enough so that the sides of the tank don't overflow as well, I assume?