Rotting in fish scales / body, started out as a white blotch

[Yaponchik]

Hello MFKers,

Posting this as a reference, while looking for answers or feedback from anyone who may have experienced the same.

Last Saturday, I got a WC Buettikoferi, which has been in-country already for at least 6 weeks. I have seen the specimen thrice within this time frame, during weekends, and decided to take her home last week. Everything was good, and the fish is supposedly in good condition.

Having had an MGD outbreak due to WC specimens in the past, I found it prudent to quarantine this specimen and administered Praziquantel at the recommended dosage.

Water Parameters during tank transfer: NH3 0ppm, NO2- 0ppm NO3- 40ppm

Sunday

Nothing noteworthy. Fish acclimatized quickly to environment and has eaten a day after acquisition.

Monday

Fed fish, fish took food.

A white film was observed hanging off the 7th dorsal. Decided to perform 2nd dosage of Praziquantel (3rd day) before doing a WC and starting with anti-fungals.

note: This may well have been slime, but at the time it looked like a cottony growth.

Tuesday

Fed fish, fish took food.

White film disappeared, but a white blotch is observed below the right side of the 7th dorsal fin. Performed 2nd dose of praziquantel (preventative).

Pictures below.





Wednesday

Did not feed this day.

Decided to start anti-fungal / anti-bacterial to promote healing. Performed 50% WC, with stabilized water. 6th dorsal tip is now affected by whitish substance, and growth is now observed on the left side of the fish. Administered recommended dosage of melafix+pimafix.

Water parameters after WC: NH3 0ppm, NO2- 0ppm NO3- 25-35ppm



Thursday

Fed fish, fish took food.

White growth has spread out. Still contained in between the 6th & 8th dorsal. Anal fin has a streak of white, but affected area is still contained, and no path leads to the anal fin.

Friday

Afternoon:

Fed fish, fish took food.

Red blotch on dorsal ridge, in between 7th & 8th dorsal. White area on anal fin slowly branching up and connecting to main white blotch. Discoloration apparent, and pattern fading on affected part. Coloration looks like a reddish grey, with greyness being dominant. Involuntary twitching of the tail is observed.

Dosed melafix+pimafix.

Pictures of the fish's body during this time:



Performed a 90% water change late evening, near midnight, with stabilized water. No medicines dosed. White completely disappeared, instead being replaced by a complete discoloration of affected area, including caudal fin, starting from top and bottom, leaving a majority of the middle caudal fin coloration intact. Fish is active, but twitching is still observed in the tail area (obvious, involuntary movements of the tail, more pronounced than earlier in the day)

Water parameters after WC: NH3 0ppm, NO2- 0ppm NO3- 15-20ppm

Saturday

Fed fish, fish ignored food. Discarded untouched food after 2 hrs.

13 hrs before this post (Saturday, late afternoon):

Major discoloration on affected area - spread is now more aggressive. Fish seems to have no control over affected body part. Spine looks bent when viewed from the top - but fish is still able to swim normally. Discolouration and affected area has reached the 5th dorsal fin and looks to be progressing towards the head. Both left and right body area is equally affected.







6 hrs before this post:

Caudal fin is tattered. Afflicted area is now up to 4th caudal fin. Fish exhibits symptoms of having no control over affected area. No twitching is observed. Flesh seems rotting. Slime coat is gone in affected area.


Sunday

Early morning, posting time, fish's perspective:

Right body is now affected until 4th dorsal fin. Discolouration is more pronounced, with what looks like slime coat being gone. Caudal fin is tattered, and majority is already discoloured / washed out. Fish looks to have no control over affected body part.


Possible incontinence is observed in addition to damage.





Left side of the body is affected up to 2nd dorsal fin.



Will update current water parameters when I wake up and perform testing.


I am ready to accept the loss right now of the fish, however painful it may be, but I would like to know if any of you have experience with this sort of specific illness. The tank where it is in right now is the most efficient in terms of bio filtration, and if this is a contagious disease, I would have to purge and sanitize the whole tank, including all media, which is problematic as I am expecting a PBL "Dabola" in the coming days

The plan of action is if the fish still survives when I wake up, is to dose 1 tbsp of epsom salt for each 5 gallon tank capacity, in addition to sulfadizine (if I am able to acquire any) upon advise of kno4te. I really hope she pulls through as she is a really beautiful specimen and I've been wanting her for a while.

Thanks to Jaws7777 and Kno4te for guiding me during this period. I hope that we have experienced fishkeepers who can share their experience or provide answers as to what this is to (hopefully) prevent her demise, as well as help any MFKer/bichir keeper who recognizes the signs early.

Thanks for reading this long thread. Cheers.

 

[Coryloach]

I understand the experience is unpleasant and it is sad to see a fish that way but I am going to have to start with some criticism.
From what I am reading you started preventative medication and in turn the fish got sick....
And you're planning on more medication...
My point is, the fish maybe allergic to the meds.
After dosing with Praziquantel for example no other med should be used in the space of weeks as there can be a reaction.
Weak fish may not react well to medication either. Hence treating newly acquired fish as a prevention is a bad idea, unless needed.
Personally, at this stage I'd roll up my sleeves and start the very large 90% daily water changes.

One question though, what is the below supposed to mean in relation to "stabilized" water?

Performed 50% WC, with stabilized water.

 

[Yaponchik]

I understand the experience is unpleasant and it is sad to see a fish that way but I am going to have to start with some criticism.
From what I am reading you started preventative medication and in turn the fish got sick....
And you're planning on more medication...
My point is, the fish maybe allergic to the meds.
After dosing with Praziquantel for example no other med should be used in the space of weeks as there can be a reaction.
Weak fish may not react well to medication either. Hence treating newly acquired fish as a prevention is a bad idea, unless needed.
Personally, at this stage I'd roll up my sleeves and start the very large 90% daily water changes.

One question though, what is the below supposed to mean in relation to "stabilized" water?

Hi Coryloach,

Thank you for the criticism. But I did this in order to prevent an outbreak of MGD or other prevalent diseases often carried by wild caught specimens, without them showing any signs of infection. (Experienced this before, and it is very expensive to treat a 255G tank.)

Stabilized water is water that is treated with Prime and aerated using air stones for 24 hrs.

Had I not performed any preventative measures, I might have introduced a fish carrying columnaris, and could have wiped out the whole tank in a single day.

I am just glad that the fish is alive. I am now taking countermeasures against columnaris based on King El's experience (Thank you so much earl) - and will update you guys if it survives.

 

[Coryloach]

Yes, columnaris is possible based on the symptoms. Good luck. I hope the fish makes it through.

 

[Yaponchik]

Yes, columnaris is possible based on the symptoms. Good luck. I hope the fish makes it through.

I can say for sure now it's columnaris. Left eye is now color white, after the hour it took to buy furan. Caudal fin is almost non-existent, only the spines remain. Affliction has now started from the gills. I think the weather accelerated this as tank water is now 31C (not exposed to sunlight, and is influenced only by ambient temperature today. Dropped in a couple of ice packets.

Hoping for the best.

 

[jaws7777]

I understand the experience is unpleasant and it is sad to see a fish that way but I am going to have to start with some criticism.
From what I am reading you started preventative medication and in turn the fish got sick....
And you're planning on more medication...
My point is, the fish maybe allergic to the meds.
After dosing with Praziquantel for example no other med should be used in the space of weeks as there can be a reaction.
Weak fish may not react well to medication either. Hence treating newly acquired fish as a prevention is a bad idea, unless needed.
Personally, at this stage I'd roll up my sleeves and start the very large 90% daily water changes.

One question though, what is the below supposed to mean in relation to "stabilized" water?

You know something buddy you are a real clown. Instead of helping the guy out you get on your soap box and criticize him. Along with offering little to know real help. Instead of admitting you have no clue whats going on and wishing him luck.

Obviously he doesnt know how to treat it and is doing his best. Posted in multiple sections to no avail. At least he cares enough to exhaust all resources possible. Yet you offer no real solution except some idiotic criticism....smfh

I can say for sure now it's columnaris. Left eye is now color white, after the hour it took to buy furan. Caudal fin is almost non-existent, only the spines remain. Affliction has now started from the gills. I think the weather accelerated this as tank water is now 31C (not exposed to sunlight, and is influenced only by ambient temperature today. Dropped in a couple of ice packets.

Hoping for the best.

Sorry you wasted your time bud. I was wondering why traffic on this site has been so slow.... now i can see why people are flocking to FB and IG


Hopefully others will chime in

 

[Coryloach]

You know something buddy you are a real clown. Instead of helping the guy out you get on your soap box and criticize him. Along with offering little to know real help. Instead of admitting you have no clue what going on and wishing him luck.

Listen "buddy", you can hold off your temper influenced opinions for yourself.

Treating either a healthy fish or fish with columnaris with improper meds is not going to help one bit.

The best start with fish in quarantine is always large water changes. Take it or ignore and go to FB to spread fairy tales.

 

[jaws7777]

Listen "buddy", you can hold off your temper influenced opinions for yourself.

Treating either a healthy fish or fish with columnaris with improper meds is not going to help one bit.

The best start with fish in quarantine is always large water changes. Take it or ignore and go to FB to spread fairy tales.

Oddly he had to take it to FB to find the best course of treatment....besides your agreement after he indicated it was columnaris this thread was a waste of his time.

 

[Coryloach]

Oddly he had to take it to FB to find the best course of treatment....besides your agreement after he indicated it was columnaris this thread was a waste of his time.

I suppose your help on the other thread wasn't sufficient enough either. You're a sad man throwing insults at people for nothing better to do.

I also said, it is possible its columnaris. But it is impossible to know for sure right now.
I did not want to suggest yet another med thrown at the fish though the symptoms are fitting columnaris, to an extent.

 

[Coryloach]

To add to why I did not suggest columnaris in the first place, is because the OP already tried Primafix and although not the strongest of meds, it had no effect on the fish. Columnaris should have responded to an extent to Primafix, although seachem kanaplex would be a better choice.