Saltwater Setup Advice - Sump/Refugium, Pumps, Filters, etc...

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kissarmy39

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Jul 24, 2009
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South Orange, NJ
Hello All,

I have decided that once I move out of my apartment into a more permanent setting and save up the money I will make the step of converting from freshwater to saltwater tank. I have been researching and feel i have about 10% of the knowledge needed to truly set up a healthy saltwater reef tank.

I currently have a mixed 55g cichlid tank with 2 fluval 305's, each with surface skimmers, 2 whisper 300 air pumps for 4 air stones/bricks, a heater for a 75g tank, and 48inch T5-HO Actinic and Daylight 10k bulbs for lighting.

Eventually, I will be selling the tank stand, decorations, on craigslist and will sell the fish to a lfs for much lower value for store credit.

I plan on keeping the 2 fluvals, the lights, and the general supplies (nets, scrapers, etc..) for the reef tank. I am aiming to buy a 90g reef ready tank and stand on craigslist, I will wait until a good deal comes along but I want to know what a good deal would be...

However, here is where my multitude of questions comes in:

1) I understand cannister filters can be detrimental to reef tanks especially with nitrates. Yet, is there anything I can use the fluvals for? If so, what media is appropriate for them? I was thinking at the very least use them to create more water flow and leave them almost bare, plus the surface skimmers could only help with surface film? Here is a link to some filter media i was thinking of for the reef tank: http://www.valuepetsupplies.com/Aqu...ia/Fluval/Fluval-INLab-SeriesIN-p4467086.html

2) Are air pumps with air stones/bricks a huge no-no in saltwater reef tanks or sumps?

3) While I know DIY projects can have awesome results for your wallet, your tank, and your self-accomplishment, I am not handy at all, I do not plan on building my own lights, sump/refugium, skimmer, return, etc... Therefore for my refugium/sump I was going to use something along the lines of: http://www.aquabuys.com/page/aqb/PROD/cpr_aquafuge_sump_pro

Is this garbage or a decent product?

4) Would it be better to just get one of those suction cup refigums and put it in the main tank in a hidden area?

5) For a refugium/sump, how do the amphipods and other nutrients get back up into the main tank?

6) Should I buy a refugium sump, i was going to put refugium mud and live sand with a few pieces of live rock, then I would put in amphipods, different types of macoalgage, grazing snails, mini stars, copepods, and reef worms...is this overkill? I ask this because there is a start up refugium pack on ipsf.com...

7) What are the thoughts on UV sterlizers? Especially for someone who isnt handy enough to create a custom uv sterlizer to protein skimmer loop.

8) What are the thoughts on DeIonization Filters and R/O filters? Are they always needed, are they hard to maintain? Also, please explain overflow and auto-fills...

9) I feel overwhelmed with all the pumps, filters, returns, and intakes that are associated with saltwater reef tanks, however, I want to learn and understand how they work. I hear horror stories about power outages and peoples tanks/sumps flooding. I do not want this to happen, how can I circumvent this or make it a non factor?

My goal is to understand how the saltwater tank setup filters and plumbing works, and what items are mandatory, recommeneded, and completely optional. I know there are many DIY ideas but please remember I suck with that kind of stuff and also I am willing to wait, research, and save money to get all the proper set up and equpment needed for a lively and healthy large tank.

Also, remember that I am not planning on making my first purchase for another few months (minimum) due to lack of knowledge, funding, and living space. SO please dont say I am not qualified to own a reef tank, because I know I am nowhere close.

Thanks all, I know this is a long one so sorry in advance, looking forward to some answers/advice in the responses. Thanks again!

KISSARMY
 
1- definitely keep your canisters and nitrate removers are good, but by no means a replacement for water changes.

2- air pumps not required, but keep handy for anything you might need it for like keeping fish in a bucket temporarily. Your built in over flows combined with filters and skimmers will aerate your water.

3- You can get a better sump/fuge for less so keep looking around.

4- sump/fuge is better than a stand alone H.O.B. fuge, but a matter of preference...less power consumption

5- sump/fuge will be all connected inline and everything will get everywhere via pump guaranteed.

6- Not over kill, the more diversity the better.

7- UV use is a BIG debate in reefing, some swear by it and others curse it. If you did decide on uv use it is best inline...once again less power consumption.

8- definitely invest in an RO/Dioniztion unit as they are a must in reefing. Reefs are among the most sterile waters in the world and marine fish are delicate and expensive in comparison to fresh water fish. The units are fairly simple and inexpensive to maintain so not a big deal there.
Over flow is the amount of space needed in your sump to hold enough water should you lose power to your pump or turn it off. An auto fill is a device preferably connected to your RO/DI unit that automatically tops off your water level in your sump or holding tank and avoids burning up your pump or you having to top off yourself manually...very useful.

9- Just explained in #8... your sump must be large enough to support water volume should power be shut off to the main pump...non issue

Your goal is completely reasonable and attainable, my only recommendation to you is to consider a 120g tank with or without twin over flows. The reasoning behind this is that most beautiful reef fish including tangs or angels require a 100g tank or larger to keep. Twin over flows will allow you to keep the surface clear of debree for deeper light penetration and easy sump return.

Learn more at www.reefcentral.com happy reefing... : )
 
Thanks BenRay,

Seems like you've been extremely helpful being that you answered my question about the DSB and now this haha.

For my sump/refugium do you have any sites or specific models you reccomend? and how big of a sump for a 120 tank would I need and how much extra space would I need in it so it could handle power outages?

Thanks again.
 
Also for my cannister...hook them up to the main tank or in the sump before the refugium section? I was going to use filter pads in each fluval, with crushed coral in the bottom baskets, 2 chemi pure packs in the middle trays, and then 2-3 nitrate removers in the top trays with surface skimmer inout and spray bar outputs, is this fine or should I go with just crushed coral and nitrate removers or perhaps nano bio balls?

For the airstones would it be bad if I put them in the sump, I am assuming the skimmer is in the sump prior to the refugium so would it be bad to put all this in the same area? Also would the phosphate/nitrate removers actually hurt my refugium if its kept with cheato?

Thanks again for your help
 
Canisters are run either way, in the sump or in the tank, I ran mine directly in the tank. Remove all bio-balls n replace with live rock or crushed coral...bio-balls are nitrate factories, where as live rock/crushed coral complete the nitrogen cycle or denitrify.

You can use ur 55g as ur sump, just add plexi-glass dividers & a skimmer. Sumps should hold about 25% of your display volume, but the bigger the better for water volume.
 
U won't need to run airstones cuz your skimmer will aerate your water. An airstone will only result in undesireable fine bubbles in your main display and in the fuge.
Nitrate n phosphate removers will be fine until your chaeto goes sexual, that's when u know ur over doing it. But why run phosphate/nitrate removers when chaeto is free... : )
 
so what would be the proper media in a fluval? crushed coral and pads or just nothing and use them for just more water movement, surface skimming, and slight gain in volume? And could I put the fluvals in the sump or should they be in the main tank?
 
Cruched coral n coarse gradually to fine pads will be great and will give you water movement. Once again the skimming will be done by the overflows and the skimmer, but every little bit helps. Also, run your fluvals which ever way is easiest for your set up cuz it really isn't gonna matter it's just extra filtration.

Did you check out reefcentral yet?...
 
dude.....you're talking about a WAY more complicated and involved ecosystem with a reef tank. reefcentral.com is where it's at. There's a guy there who writes all about tanks and water chemistry for beginners .... screen name "sk8r". read and follow everything he wrote on reef central, you'll be successful.

you need to start with this one right here .... http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2153097 He explains saltwater water chemistry, and how you maintain it. Just read that and think about it for a few weeks, then decide if you really want a marine tank.

Next, to figure out what sump you need for a reeftank, you need to work backwards from display tank size, then choose a skimmer, and then get a sump that skimmer will fit into, then from there, figure pumps and flow rate.

If you want a marine tank, you need to decide if you want fish or coral. If you just want fish, don't care about coral, then you MAY be able to cut some corners, but I doubt it. You probably want a real nice coral tank, with a very few fish.

You'll need to also understand "kalk water" to top off your reef tank--all you need for LPS coral. SPS coral, more will probably be needed. Then there's "soft coral" that is very easy and requires less light.

Oh...you'll need light if you want coral....and lots of very high quality and EXPENSIVE light.

And if I were you, I'd order some real live rock shipped from Florida to your house via air freight, and start your tank with that. http://www.tbsaltwater.com/about/index.html

Aeration....just leave the lid off the tank, let natural air exchange do the job. get a net if you have jumpers you're worried about getting out.

arthropods.... you want pods to grow in your tank, and then you want a fish that can live on those pods..... you want a mandarin goby in your tank...sure sign of an elite marine aquarist right there. read all about it here. http://test.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=b75ef67f42763d51ffaf247ab08d9c8d&p=23545306 There is some debate, but lots of guys claim that pods in the sump/refugium end up in the display by passing right through the pump--doesn't bother 'em a bit. Crazy, huh?

I'd recommend you spend a few months just READING about all this stuff. I've done it a couple times, and chickened out because I'm not home enough, don't really have space at the house, etc. But.....I DO have the money in a drawer in my house to do it now, though. I might reconsider.....

OH!!! RO/DI water....YES! You need to buy a filter set up and make your RO/DI water at your house. You'll need it for top-off water, to combat evaporation. You'll need it to change tank water. You'll just need it all the time, in a spare tank, just hanging around.

Saltwater tank is serious business. You need to do a lot of research, you need to find someone local who knows what they're doing, and then you need to take some of their advice, and discard some, too. And you'll need to read reef central constantly. Everything is complicated, lots of mis-information, and you'll often have to listen to both sides and decide for yourself.

Reefkeeping is highly addictive. It's expensive. It's amazing. Just search google images of "amazing reef tanks"....look at pics of "brain coral", "hammer coral", "catalina goby" on and on and on.....
 
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