Same old new tank project but more questions!

[jim barry]

Hi. So i am reading all that i can on here before i embark on my 8x4x2 ray tank but have a couple more questions. Part of the pay off with my wife allowing me the new tank is getting rid of the 6x2x2 tank in the living room (the new tank is going in the garage). So the problem now is i will not have another tank to put any pups in should i be lucky enough to have my rays breed! No room for a second tank in the garage so i have started thinking. Would it be possible to put a smaller tank under the main tank and next to the sump? I want to plum the smaller tank into the big tank system so the pups go in the same water params but have room to grow on for a short while and are away from the parents. Problem is i can't figure out the best way to plumb it in! Any ideas?
I was thinking of splitting the feed from the main tank in two and half going to the wet/dry in the sump and half to the smaller tank. This could then be pumped back across to the top of the wet dry, but i don't want to use any extra pumps if i can help it. So do you think i could split the feed from the main tank to the sump to fill the smaller tank and just have a bulk head connecting the small tank to the sump.

Basic drawing but i hope you get the idea. I'm just not sure the quality of the water will be good enough as it will be waste water coming from the main tank. But this will be on a auto drip system so maybe i could get away with it. What do you guys think please?

 

[oldfish]

Why not oversize the wet-dry sump box so you can have a pup section in it?

 

[jim barry]

Why not oversize the wet-dry sump box so you can have a pup section in it?

Thats why i love this site! Simple is best and all that. Maybe i am over thinking this.

 

[Just Toby]

You may not be able to use the same as the sump, for instance my cabinet maker on a 6x3 wanted a divider in one third for strength (seabray, solid oak) my sump is 100 gals and sits on the bigger two thirds. You can still work it that way though, you just have an extra tank drilled top and bottom and do the same on the sump and link together with two 1 or 2 inch pipes, then you just need a small circulation pump, of it were me I would find the small deltec or coralia nano pumps and use it to draw water down one of the pipes, nature will do the other bit.

You could get the cabinet made to accept the 6x2x2 under it and use that as the sump but you need a lot of access if you want to be catching out pups!


For my next tank that will be 4 ft or more front to back I want the sump to be 6x4(ish) or thereabouts but might only go 18 top to bottom to allow better access for cleaning. This will give a lot more volume too.

 

[motoro magic]

Why not get a 40mm steel box section stand made and clad it yourself? that way you will be able to take full advantage of the space under the main tank. You will need the stand to be atleast 30" high to give you enough room to get into the sump if your going to use your 6x2x2.

 

[jim barry]

Hi guys thanks for all the input so far, deffo food for thought. Here are another two designs i am considering. One with the separate tank for pups and the other that has a section for pups with in the sump. What do you think?

 

[Just Toby]

I like motoro magics idea!

I would drill the sumps to waste so there is no ball valve to fail and add fresh water supply whilst at it. If I was doing mine again then I would find a way of getting decent bore airline supply to the tank so I could put the noisy air pump in a shed or outside the house (pond blower) this way you could have moving bed in the sump without the noise.

Also I would have a low drilled point in the sump to drain it to waste so that you can clear the rubbish out with just a turn of a valve, furthermore I would add a koralia pump the other end to blow the crap towards the drain when I wanted to use it...similar to a vortex setup in koi ponds.

Personally I would not run the hma in to the return on the pumps in case it flows the wrong way...I added a normally closed solenoid valve to the hma supply so if the power fails then cold water will not enter the tank, I can then also time the hma to feed avoiding constant drip, with the aquatronica you can set it so that if the sump hits a high level it turns off the hma to help avoid flooding if the drain freezes or blocks.

Surely the pup holding tank needs to be same height as the max height on the sump to avoid it over flowing?

If you are running new pipe work to waste then go big as my 1 inch is too slow for my liking and I would add a second separate drain plumbed to very high on the sump as extra emergency overflow. My tank is also drilled at 50% mark plumbed to waste, I can then turn 1 tap to give 50% water chang without the risk of the tank ever fully draining by mistake, another hole next to it feeds an external filter as my back up filter in case anything goes wrong on sump (which it did once when a pump failed) I now have two pumps! Plus another small one to feed the uv which recirculates the sump when I have the pumps off for water changes, this way the sump is fed 100% of the time with moving water.

My external filter also has an in line heater to keep the water warm whilst the sump is off during slow water changes and acts as backup.

My supply also has a bypass before the hma but after the solenoid so I can do a fast fill after water change as the hma is too slow and means the sump is off too long, I just add dechlorinator for this.

I also have an inlet to the waste so I can gravel vac straight to waste.

Also added lights to the cabinet so you can see what you are doing.

Feel free to come and view my setup as I can talk you through it.

 

[jim barry]

Woah!!
Confused now. Sounds like a complicated set up you have there. I want to keep it as simple as possible but understand you need to build in some fail safes so appriciate your comments.
Deffo would go with at least 2" drain to waste and i like your idea about extra low drilled hole to clear sump debris to waste but that would surely mean riasing the sump off the ground to get the run to waste? and i don't have the head height between the top of the sump and the bottom of the main tank.
As for the smaller tank for pups possibly overflowing i am not sure i follow. There will be two 2" connectors to the sump so it will allways drain to the sump. I guess maybe if the power fails it could be a problem. But then i just need to do my maths to make sure the sump hold any drainage from the weir should the power fail?
Reading your comments do you do other water changes apart from just auto dripping?

 

[Just Toby]

Sorry to confuse, it sounds complicated but the tank pretty much runs itself, I just feed, clean the glass and yes, I do water changes of about 10-20% every weekend...I do not need to as my nitrates remain level at 10-20ppm but I like to vac the sand. Plus drip is more dilution of 30 gals per day, water change is physical removal if you see what I mean.

You would not need to raise the sump by much..if at all. 1) it sits on carpet and then thin layer of polystyrene plus the thickness of my oak base to the cabinet, the waste pipe is in the screed of the floor so alread below the tank height....it just drains. My waste for water change sits in the cabinet too.

If the pup tank is total 18 inches high but the sump is 2foot high then if the sump fills to the top it would flood the 18 high tank as the top of the sump is 6 inches above the top of the pup tank....trust me!

Be safe and add an overflow to the pup tank just to be safe, personally I would add gate valves off the sump and a drain 3 inches from bottom of pup tank, this way to catch a pump you turn off the gates, open the drain and now you only have 3 inches of water to catch the pups in!

I would try to avoid any bottom drains (apart from sump drain) as any failure can leave a ray in no water, I have all mine at 50% and the weir has an internal divide to stop full drain.

 

[jim barry]

Reading this over and over and starting to understand now! I can't put my waste in the screed it must run about 4 plus feet above ground level to my soil stack but think about it the water will be under pressure so i guess will flow with out a problem.Fair point about the pup tank, more i think about it more i like the idea of a seperate section with in the sump for any pups (just asked ND aquatics to quote for a 7x3 by 18" tall sump. Should leave room for a pup section and get a big foot print but not so tall wet dry trickle tower.
For back up i was thinking of adding a pressurised fishmate filter with built in U.V. What do you think? or is it better to run seperate U.V.
What sump pumps do you use? I have been looking at getting just one Sequence 800 pump. But now may need to rethink this as i would not have a back up.
On the last note abot bottom drains.I don't understand about any failure leaving a ray in no water. If i turn the power off to my 6x2x2 the sump fills half way and the main tank can only empty to the top of the weir so the main tank ramains mostly full of water and the sump raises around 2" in water height. Also what do you mean about an internal divide in your weir?
Thanks for all the help so far, much appriciated!