I understand but like I mention I am only seeing ammonia with Safe after 3 days while for my regular water conditioner at 4 days I am not seeing any ammonia
No change in fishes
No change in fishes
Seachem Safe vs Aquascience New Pond
- Thread starter Galantspeedz
- Start date
Most test kits can give you a false positive reading for ammonia (total ammonia) when using Seachem Prime or Safe. You need to test for NH3, Free ammonia. Seachem sells ammonia sensors for 10$ or so, you might want to invest in one. http://www.seachem.com/ammonia-alert.php
Having said all that, after 3 days you shouldn't be seeing any ammonia, period. What you are describing does not make any sense. Safe doesn't produce ammonia. lol Something is missing from the equation, so I would start with a Seachem sensor that will test for free ammonia, and then go from there. If you are still getting ammonia readings with the Seachem sensor after 3 days, then it goes back to what I originally stated. Bio load exceeds bio filtration.
Having said all that, after 3 days you shouldn't be seeing any ammonia, period. What you are describing does not make any sense. Safe doesn't produce ammonia. lol Something is missing from the equation, so I would start with a Seachem sensor that will test for free ammonia, and then go from there. If you are still getting ammonia readings with the Seachem sensor after 3 days, then it goes back to what I originally stated. Bio load exceeds bio filtration.
Can you elaborate on that? 5 ml is a liquid measurement, is this a teaspoon that you are using? Also, what is your tap water treated with (chlorine or chloramine), and at what levels?
Once you figure that out you might want to read this:
https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/move-to-safe-stay-with-prime.688914/#post-7765167
If you are adding 3-4 teaspoons to a 200 gallon (800 l) tank, you are overdosing by a MASSIVE amount. The result of that can cause all sorts of issues, starting with, but not limited to, a large reduction in oxygen levels. As an example, at 2 ppm chloramine, a level teaspoon of Safe treats 658 gallons of my tap water.
https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/move-to-safe-stay-with-prime.688914/#post-7765167
If you are adding 3-4 teaspoons to a 200 gallon (800 l) tank, you are overdosing by a MASSIVE amount. The result of that can cause all sorts of issues, starting with, but not limited to, a large reduction in oxygen levels. As an example, at 2 ppm chloramine, a level teaspoon of Safe treats 658 gallons of my tap water.
It's those spoon that is use to feed medicine to baby. And sorry I said wrongly. I am using the 2.5ml part of the spoon. 3-4 scoops.
Ah... I just read again... i should dose up to max 3.2g for 800l tank which is about slightly more than 1 scoop of 2.5ml.. I overdose up to 3-4 times
But that being said, effects are only seen on 3rd day but for my cichlids tank I have no such issue
And below is the latest report.. our water is potable straight from tap.
Can help to see what dosage should I use as minimum ? Max would be 4 x to rid of ammonia
Ah... I just read again... i should dose up to max 3.2g for 800l tank which is about slightly more than 1 scoop of 2.5ml.. I overdose up to 3-4 times
But that being said, effects are only seen on 3rd day but for my cichlids tank I have no such issue
And below is the latest report.. our water is potable straight from tap.
Can help to see what dosage should I use as minimum ? Max would be 4 x to rid of ammonia
Just keep in mind that Prime/Safe are reducing agents, so once they have reduced chlorine they will start looking for other things to reduce, such as 02. I am pretty sure that Singapore uses chlorine. not chloramine, and that's how it looks on your water report. Overdosing by 3-4 times can most definitely cause 02 depletion. Why just in this tank, I have no idea. I don't own a crystal ball so I have no idea what the typical 02 levels are in any of your tanks, before, or after your water changes, nor do I know the bio loads, bio bacteria levels, etc-etc-etc. Obviously this isn't an issue with the water conditioner product, but more one of operator error.
Hello; Allow me to add to the confusion. Not on purpose but. I do not have a clear idea of what is going on with the OP's tank.
First thing is the OP seems to have latched onto SAFE as the cause of the problem and may not be considering anything else. A notion came to me as I read the thread.
The problem appears to be ammonia in the tank around three days after a WC and use of too much SAFE. The SAFE should not make any ammonia regardless.
My first guess being the tank is not cycled. A scenario came to mind from a recent thread. has to do with large WC interrupting the cycle process. Here is the information about the idea.
https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/help-a-newbie-cycle-his-tank.694773/page-2#post-7833758
not another new tank (MFK member)
“Its a balance between food for the bacteria which as you know comes via the fish just breathing and pooing or something dead and the bacteria multiplication process. Just adding bacteria from any source at the start of the cycle results in dead bacteria as they have no food until the NH3 rises. How long does that take?? Many factors. But the bacteria you added at the start via whatever means will be mostly dead as its had no food, so your NH3 hits the roof and people think how come?? Now, converting NH3 to NO2 is the easypeasy one. The problem is NO2 to Nitrate, now the bacteria that converts NH3 to NO2 is killed by high levels of NH3 and can take weeks whilst they multiply to sufficient level, all the time your fish are in this toxic mix of fluctuating levels.”
“If you stop the process by doing a water change your right back to the start. I like the oldest method, get it all up and running, pop in a prawn or part of one. WAIT until your NH3 hits the high mark on your test kit and then add the bacteria in the bottle form, no nasty's from anyone else's tank. And then wait, do not remove the prawn let it be and keep testing. Your NH3 will drop fast because the bacteria is everywhere in the air around the world (good old mother nature hey) and now your into the long wait until the NO2 drop and remember you have to feed them or they will die. As soon as the NO2 drop pop in your fish and monitor. At the nd of the day there is no easy/fast way.”
“If you remove the food which you are doing with a WC by dropping the NO3 and/or No2 how can the bacteria multiply?? You are going back to a clean system or at the very least dropping the food levels, no/reduced food means slower or even stopping the cycle dead. And in the worst case in which you do a WC and remove the food as well the bacteria will die = back to the start. If you read the blogs people can take months to cycle their tanks because they pop in fish and then see the levels go through the roof. At this point you loose your fish or do a WC and stop and stop the cycle and this goes on and on and on and on.”
Another idea is that the big overdose of SAFE acting as a reducing agent may possibly be killing off some of the beneficial bacteria (bb). Have no particular reason behind this idea. Throwing it out to be taken apart if faulty.
Last thing being the tank is way overstocked.
I think RD has been hitting these ideas , or at least his posts got me to them. I respect RD's comments.
First thing is the OP seems to have latched onto SAFE as the cause of the problem and may not be considering anything else. A notion came to me as I read the thread.
The problem appears to be ammonia in the tank around three days after a WC and use of too much SAFE. The SAFE should not make any ammonia regardless.
My first guess being the tank is not cycled. A scenario came to mind from a recent thread. has to do with large WC interrupting the cycle process. Here is the information about the idea.
https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/help-a-newbie-cycle-his-tank.694773/page-2#post-7833758
not another new tank (MFK member)
“Its a balance between food for the bacteria which as you know comes via the fish just breathing and pooing or something dead and the bacteria multiplication process. Just adding bacteria from any source at the start of the cycle results in dead bacteria as they have no food until the NH3 rises. How long does that take?? Many factors. But the bacteria you added at the start via whatever means will be mostly dead as its had no food, so your NH3 hits the roof and people think how come?? Now, converting NH3 to NO2 is the easypeasy one. The problem is NO2 to Nitrate, now the bacteria that converts NH3 to NO2 is killed by high levels of NH3 and can take weeks whilst they multiply to sufficient level, all the time your fish are in this toxic mix of fluctuating levels.”
“If you stop the process by doing a water change your right back to the start. I like the oldest method, get it all up and running, pop in a prawn or part of one. WAIT until your NH3 hits the high mark on your test kit and then add the bacteria in the bottle form, no nasty's from anyone else's tank. And then wait, do not remove the prawn let it be and keep testing. Your NH3 will drop fast because the bacteria is everywhere in the air around the world (good old mother nature hey) and now your into the long wait until the NO2 drop and remember you have to feed them or they will die. As soon as the NO2 drop pop in your fish and monitor. At the nd of the day there is no easy/fast way.”
“If you remove the food which you are doing with a WC by dropping the NO3 and/or No2 how can the bacteria multiply?? You are going back to a clean system or at the very least dropping the food levels, no/reduced food means slower or even stopping the cycle dead. And in the worst case in which you do a WC and remove the food as well the bacteria will die = back to the start. If you read the blogs people can take months to cycle their tanks because they pop in fish and then see the levels go through the roof. At this point you loose your fish or do a WC and stop and stop the cycle and this goes on and on and on and on.”
Another idea is that the big overdose of SAFE acting as a reducing agent may possibly be killing off some of the beneficial bacteria (bb). Have no particular reason behind this idea. Throwing it out to be taken apart if faulty.
Last thing being the tank is way overstocked.
I think RD has been hitting these ideas , or at least his posts got me to them. I respect RD's comments.
just to drop my 2 worthless cents, ammonia should never be a factor in a cycled tank, unless under bio filtered, nitrate should be your issue if over stocked , not saying you are. not ammonia.
That being said love sea-chem safe. Not for ammonia control, that is a cycled/bio filter issue not a water conditioning issue and can only be controlled by upping bio filtration to meet stock
or stock reduced to meet filtration capability in the long run to have a stable tank.
That being said love sea-chem safe. Not for ammonia control, that is a cycled/bio filter issue not a water conditioning issue and can only be controlled by upping bio filtration to meet stock
or stock reduced to meet filtration capability in the long run to have a stable tank.
