Semi new tank, question about worms

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CJM1123

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Dec 23, 2009
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Ohio
So i decided after almost 10 years of keeping fresh water tanks to start a marine tank. I've been surfing the forums for a long time and did a ton of research before feeling comfortable enough to invest in it. i decided on a 120 gallon tank

The tank has been up and running for for almost 8 months. I had 2 clowns, gold headed goby, a fox face, and 2 damsels. I was very patient during the cycle and am very cautious when adding anything. Now i am down to the fox face and the goby. i noticed that the fins on the clowns and damsels were eaten away, before they died. Everything seemed to be okay, they all were happy, eating well, and always greeted me when i walked into the room. then i would wake up to one or 2 dying.

when i added live rock during the initial setup of the tank, i remember getting a million of these tiny clear needles in my hand from one of the pieces, but couldnt see or find anything. upon researching it, it seems to be bristleworms.

My question is: is it common for them to kill fish? in my mind it seems plausible since the fish were only killed at night, when the worms are active. And if they could be the cause, how can i get rid of them?
 
Bristle worms don't kill fish they eat algea, left over food, etc, if any worm did (besides the parasite ones) it would be the "fire worm" abd I dont think it is common for them to kill fish... infact I'd be astounded if they did... they will destroy corals, other inverts and likely eat dead fish, but I've never heard of one killing a fish. Its most likely that one of your other fish was picking on them... possibly the clowns/damsels where fighting (as both speices can be quite agressive) to the point where they killed eachother off? That said, its also possible the fox face (assuming it was bigger) wasnt getting enough food and therefore picked at the smaller fish... That also said... it could be fin rot, which can be caused by some phyisical abuse, or by poor water quality. What are your parameters like? As I'm sure you know marines require much cleaner water then Fresh water fish. I hate being so vauge... but without observing the tank myself/the dead fish then its hard for me to give an absolute answer.
 
Just did a quick search of my sources, and apparently they one "dangerous" "fireworm" Hermodice carunculata is actually and obigate feeder, meaning it will only eat Stonies, and gorgonians (with the occational "bite" to other corals). The are not capable of eating fish due to the lack of jaws, they use a barbed tongue to scrape the fleash off the corals.
 
Did you recover the bodies?

The most likely scenario I see here is your damsel and clown were going at it a bit, in a weakened state, at night, I think they probably could have gotten modded by bristle worms… or at the very least they massed around the already dead bodies and feasted.

Can't say I've ever heard of a direct attack on a fish though...
 
Yes i got the bodies, but the hermit crabs had torn them up pretty good. The pH is 8.2, Amonnia is 0, nitrite 0, and nitrate is between 0-5.

That was my first thought as well, however the last to go was a clown and it seemed perfectly healthy for a few days and then it was gone
 
I would also say it was the clowns and the damsels. Even though one of the clowns was the last to go, doesn’t mean he was ok. He just may have been the strongest and lasted longer. Clowns, unless they are a mated pair will attack eachother. Also, if the clowns were put in first or close to the first fish, they dominate the tank. They get the attitude they own it.

As for the damsels, they do not do well with other fish.

The fox face can defend itself and if the clowns or damsels nip at any pointon the fox face’s top fins, they would get the picture and know they could nottake him out.. I would also bet your goby stayed hidden most of the time orvery close to the rocks were it could hide fast if needed.

If your water readings are as you say, I would start to add stock in again.Stay away from damsels. If you want a clown again, make it your last fish youput in. Try adding in a tang, a Japanese swallow tail or something along thoselines. Then when you get the fish you want, add in your clown.
 
Clay said:
A fireworm eating a silverside:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t23eylcc-WE
Click to expand...

This is not the predatory fireworm I reffer to, this is a different one, (most fireworms are scavengers as can be seen by this one eating a dead fish), for one I believe most people miss-identify other firesworms as the Hermodice carunculata as it is actually fairly dificult to distinguish it from others (as the only distinctive feature is known as a "Caruncle" which is essentially a barbed tongue, designed to strip fleash from corals.
 
There is a huge disconnect in this hobby when it comes to knowledge of worms in saltwater. Bristle and Fire worms are relatively common, but many, and no telling (imo) which one you really have.

In general, I have found bristle worms to be good members of a clean up crew and relatively harmless.
 
Heathd said:
There is a huge disconnect in this hobby when it comes to knowledge of worms in saltwater. Bristle and Fire worms are relatively common, but many, and no telling (imo) which one you really have.

In general, I have found bristle worms to be good members of a clean up crew and relatively harmless.
Click to expand...

Exactly my point, like alot of inverts, there are many extreamly similar looking specimens, which can only be identified by very specific, and sometimes almost microscopic differences. My phylosophy is and always will be "Innocent until proven guilty" and in the case of predatory worms, Hermodice carunculata to be specific, this is something that is easy to find out, as a) coral damage will be presant and b) it can take hours for them to feed on the coral so it's not exactly hard to catch them in the act. Yes, as that video shows, some worms will eat a dead fish... but isnt that a good thing? What happens if a fish dies in some nook, and you can't find it... wouldn't you rather have a scavenger like hermets or a worm pick it up and eat it? Rather then have it rot, spiking your parms resulting in even more death? So some worms get big? Why does that matter? they only get as big as there is food to support them. So YES, there are bad worms, NO (as far as i've read and I've read alot) there are none that will directly attack fish besides the parasitic ones (types of flatworms). Over all I consider it ignorant (and sadly common) for people to banish any worms (or other critters) they have in their tank because they assume its harmful... (not an attack on the author of the thread or anyone else... just a statement of opinion). I spend rediculus ammounts of time researching anything I find in my tank, and if I do find that it is harmful I try to find a home for it before banishing it. Infact in the past I have set up nano systems for the purpose of keeping interesting predatory hitchers alive, but I suppose I'm a little more extream about it then most... ANYWAYS I've done far to much reading about worms the last two days... when I should have been studying for my midterms.... LOL so I will get back to my studies.
 
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